Author Topic: Approaching Impact (Read 16489 times)

Yen_Kaum · « **Reply #30 on:** November 13, 2020, 09:45:13 am »

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: StevenO on November 12, 2020, 12:48:40 pm

Quote from: Yen_Kaum on November 12, 2020, 02:09:50 am
Spoiler (hover to show)
....
Thanks a lot for the detailed answer. I will update the stats block in the original post Page 1 to avoid having builds outdated everywhere.
I have given it some thoughts and I think I have found something that be would better. Not necesarily in the order of your post but I'll try to be logical :
...

3. Regarding the sound suppressor : I think you are lookinf for the Flash suppressor/Silencer (GOI p.66) (https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Flash_Suppressor/Silencer). I considered it for the pistol but I couldn't find 400 creds so I left it aside. I would prefer staying away from snipers as I feel it does not fit well with a paramilitary demolitionist (RP-wise) : I see more Bor as a guys who primarily sets / tosses / launches explosives and could defends himself at short range.
...

5. Now for the lovely parts : grenades and grenade launcher (+ bomb thrower)
My initial idea was actually to throw grenades to stun/wound foes (and possibly dislodge them from cover with Powerful blast) before rushing them with the scatter gun and Running attack. But that doesn't change the fact that grenades take time to be launched.
The grenade launcher itself. I have a request / proposal. The stock item is Military so could require a requisition, and be hidden when in town etc etc. From a RP stand-point, as Bor is "only" a civilian now, having a BFG (Doom reference intended) could be odd. Could Bor have hand-crafted (Tech specialist) a simpler grenade launcher similar to WWI and WWII rifle grenade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle_grenade)? It could be crafted from a slugthrower pistol (licenced item) and the grenades crafted with Bomb thrower (as well as grenade bought - these being potentially compatible with a stock GL ?) could be compatible with this (and not with stock GL). This custom GL could have the following stats :

Spoiler: Custom GL "Betty Boom" (hover to show)
Weapon Type: Heavy Weapons
Size: Medium
Cost: ~~500~~ (600 : Slugthrower pistol = 250 creds + 100 creds licence cost + 250 creds modification cost ?)
Damage: Varies based on Grenade used
Stun Setting: Varies based on Grenade used
Rate of Fire: Single-Shot, must be reloaded between each shot
Weight: 5 Kilograms
Type: Varies based on Grenade used
Availability: ~~Military~~ Restricted
Inaccurate: This weapon cannot fire at targets at Long Range.
Special: Due to the nature of its ammunition, "Betty Boom" is an Area Attack Weapon.

"Betty Boom" has to be reloaded as a Move Action (?) (compatible with Quick Draw ?). "Betty Boom" can be mounted on a Rifle (This takes 1 minute, and requires a DC 15 Mechanics check), or used as a separate weapon.

Would it be ok ? Or should I stick with the stock GL and a requisition ?
If this is ok and if Quick draw applies to the reloading, I will take the Quick Draw feat as well.

6. Bomb thrower : If I understood well, crafting a grenade requires a proper workshop and components, right ? Fine for me : just to be sure

7. Ammo : Noted : grenades and "low ammo" weapons like slugthrower must have their ammo tracked. If we go for "Betty Boom", could we say that the hand crafted frag grenades include the round needed to launch the grenade (and thus not keep track of the rounds) ?
...
9. Requisition : If I am not mistaken, the 12,000 creds requisition is a "team pool". If this is correct, I will keep the possessions as they are now. Otherwise, I'll make another trip to Space Home Depot

10. Artillery shot : does it increase the radius by 1 (1 square on each side), 2 (2 squares on each side) or can I select 2 adjacent squares ?

Edit#1 : "Betty Boom" price brought up to 600 (from 500) to be consistent with the licenced cost of a stock GL
Edit#2 : From the Page 1 : Modification of the concept : removed slugthrower weapons (incl. Sport Hunter) and replaced them by a blaster rifle, Angled throw, Zero Range. Took WP Heavy weapons, Riflemaster and Quick Draw. Removed Tough as nails and took Artillery shot. Took the custom "Betty boom" (awaiting StevenO's verdict), modified the "Possessions" (no frag grenade loaded to stay at "restricted" level). Slightly refined the concept and backrgound + Comment about requisition for Bor
3. That'd be the upgrade I was thinking but wasn't looking the right place. Cutting max range two categories may seem extreme but at those ranges the normal penalties might outweigh the -10.

5. My thought: Just put a grenade launcher on the list of things you'd like available and remember the could be attached to a rifle. May want to request a supply of grenades although if you start going after concussion grenades (or thermal detonators!) the "number available" may not be that high.

Quickdraw wouldn't speed the actual reloading process but I've played it as letting you "draw" what you need to reload as a swift. The entire process to reload a weapon should be quick and deliberate and not "instant." In the first "encounter sandbox" we had NPC using missile launchers which have a full round reload time; for them the typical process was standard to fire your last shot, swift to "drop" the old magazine to the ground, move to draw the reload followed by a full round action the next turn to actually reload before getting to fire again basically meaning a character was sitting in one place for two full rounds before gaining some freedom. A faster reload time may not really cut the number of rounds you are down reloading but could let you do something else or be done in time to get a shot in the second round as well if a target is available.

6. Building "proper" grenades may require the right materials (and uses Mechanics) but when I look at Bomb Thrower I get the impression of building something fast that blows up like a grenade but maybe isn't. I don't know if the slang translates but Bomb Thrower lets you "MacGyver" an explosive device that functions like a grenade.

9. ~see previous post~ I'd prefer if you could keep things to 6000 credits each but there is certainly room above that especially with the assumption that not everyone will be looking at that many credits worth of stuff.

10. Artillery Shot would be "pick two more squares adjacent to the normal AoE." Increasing the radius would be pretty nuts. Reading the feat and how the target needs to be further away that point blank range makes an arguement for throwing grenades to get a bit more out of them rather than launching them with a launcher where PBR goes all the way out to 50 squares. Interesting thing about a grenade launcher is that even when used withOUT proficiency it gives you a better attack from 9 squares all the way out to 250 squares as it doesn't get long range.

Thanks.
Modified the stat block page 1.
Dropped Artillery shot to Targeted area
Requisitioned a GL, an assault blaster rifle, some grenades and 2 concussion grenades (qty approved ?)
Comments regarding Quick Draw and Bomb thrower (McGyver-ed frags are not compatible with GL) are noted.

StevenO · « **Reply #31 on:** November 13, 2020, 05:01:14 pm »

Quote from: Yen_Kaum on November 13, 2020, 09:45:13 am

....
Thanks.
Modified the stat block page 1.
Dropped Artillery shot to Targeted area
Requisitioned a GL, an assault blaster rifle, some grenades and 2 concussion grenades (qty approved ?)
Comments regarding Quick Draw and Bomb thrower (McGyver-ed frags are not compatible with GL) are noted.

Targeted Area: For that I consider a "successful area attack" to be one that hit's the target's REF (thus would normally deal full damage) instead of one that just hits the area and causes collateral damage.

I might mention that the Assault Blaster Rifle wouldn't do you much good if you're already using a Blaster Rifle and have the Riflemaster feat. The base damage and modes for each weapon is the same and Riflemaster would make the Rifle "accurate" which is all the "Assault BR" has over the standard BR except it's also a bit larger. While I guess someone could be looking at Riflemaster to use the Rifle as an "Accurate" weapon but most of the time when I see someone taking it they're looking at using a HEAVY blaster rifle and taking the 3d10 to 3d12. This is to say that having Riflemaster and a Blaster Rifle but then requesting the use of an assault blaster rifle doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I spy some "Dirty Fighting" on the list... I translate "an opponent" as being singular. Now it doesn't say how you need to deal damage to that target but if you hit multiple targets with an AoE I'd only let you choose ONE damaged target to take the -2 DT penalty. Now I guess that -2 from this and -5 from Devastating Attack w/ rifles can make the damage required to move a target move down the CT much less but you still need the damage.

Now here's something I wonder if you've considered or looked at: Instead of Scoundre1/Solder 5 go with Scoundrel3/Soldier3. Yes, this would "cost" 6 hitpoints but it'd give you a second "Scoundrel" talent instead of that third "Soldier" talent. There's a Fortune talent I've very partial too and which works well with daily FP, my "long encounter view", and a skill monkey type character plus there are some Misfortune talents that can be very nice/useful.

This isn't totally relevant but if you were going to take Bor into high levels which PrCs would you be looking at?

Jedi Ronin · « **Reply #32 on:** November 15, 2020, 12:09:56 pm »

First character concept coming together.
Questions about SAM.
It’s unclear to me what the bonuses are to Use the Force are when targeting a Defense (Will, Fort, Ref) - what exactly does Trained add to the check? Skill Focus?
Also this rule only applies to checks against a defense score right? So Deflect and Negate Energy checks for example are at +5 bonuses each for Trained and Focus?

StevenO · « **Reply #33 on:** November 15, 2020, 01:11:34 pm »

Quote from: Jedi Ronin on November 15, 2020, 12:09:56 pm

First character concept coming together.
Questions about SAM.
It’s unclear to me what the bonuses are to Use the Force are when targeting a Defense (Will, Fort, Ref) - what exactly does Trained add to the check? Skill Focus?
Also this rule only applies to checks against a defense score right? So Deflect and Negate Energy checks for example are at +5 bonuses each for Trained and Focus?

I thought I'd linked my post on SAM back up in the character building section. In any event:

When you would roll UtF and compare it to a Defense Score you would add your CHARACTER LEVEL to the roll of your trained skill (+6 here) instead of the normal skill modifier (+8 at 6th w/ training). Skill Focus will add +2 to that instead of +5 (and this will lead to adjustments to Defense Score boosts against Skill Checks which are often +5.) Most other modifiers should be unchanged. Now +6+CHA should give you an "attack" lines up with what weapon attacks would be (and they appear to be at +8 for the most part).

Deflect, Negate Energy, and even checking the tables for powers like Move Object would all use your standard skill modifier.

Spoiler: Move Object Example w/SAM (hover to show)

Move Object may be the poster child for SAM as it involved looking at all kinds of things. For the example I assume a trained 6th-level character, CHA 14, and Skill Focus. Normal Modifier +15, SAM +10.

Normally you should pick an object you want to target with MO and state if you want to hurl that at something before making any rolls. You'd roll the d20+15 and then first check against the table (p98) to see if you could move the object and/or what the damage potential is. Then you check that value against the target's WILL Defense to see if you move it. If hurling it we check that same value against the second something's REF to see if it deals any damage or not.

What SAM does is instead of adding your normal skill modifier to the d20 roll we use the SAM modifier when it gets checked against the WILL and REF. It all still uses just one d20 roll but now you may find the target resists being moved better and you may not hit targets as easily. One the plus side using a SAM will mean that a 1 on the d20 can miss (there are times a 1 on a skill check couldn't miss anyway) and that a 20 should always hit even if it would miss the Defense score (which is unlikely at low levels but becomes possible at higher levels.)

Used against Stormtroopers your +15 modifier would normally be automatic in every sense as there's no way to miss moving (WILL 10) a medium sized object (there still isn't with SAM) and hurling it into another trooper with REF 16 because even a d20(1)+15 hits REF 16. Using SAM you're still going to hit the trooper's poor WILL Defense with a +10 added to the d20 (unless you roll a 1) but a hero might resist and then 1d20+10 does have chance at missing the REF 16 of another trooper allowing both to avoid damage. Instead of automatically dealing an average of 6d6 to two troopers you have about a 75% chance of dealing the same (ok, better even as the 2d6 damage result wouldn't hit).

SAM is a nerf to the nearly automatic damage of Force Powers at low levels. Interestingly enough it is actually a BOOST at higher levels if Skill Focus isn't involved because the "break even/crossing point" of SAM vs. RAW is 10th-level in trained skills (and untrained skills depending on how those are treated); for example a trained 12th level would have a +11 modifier but a +12 SAM. Skill Focus pushes that point up to 16th level or so (+18) but still give a slight edge at the highest level.

Looking forward to what you may have JediRonin. If you've got most if it down but are wondering about a few things you could post what you have and what you're looking for. I'd probably give you the same character building advice I'd give any other time and may point out some possible "differences of opinion" which may be useful.

Jedi Ronin · « **Reply #34 on:** November 15, 2020, 02:15:05 pm »

I had read the SAM link before and just reread it but it was still a little unclear so I asked.
So SAM:
Level (Trained) + Attribute Modifier + 2 Focus + Misc
Trained means you add your level instead of half level to a check (in place of the +5 bonus). This scales up as you gain levels
Skill Focus adds a flat +2.
Attribute adds normally.

When not targeting a Defense (e.g. Negate Energy, Deflect, Knowledge checks, Skill Challenge DCs, etc) it’s skill calculation as normal: 1/2 level + Attrubute Modifier + 5 Trained + 5 Focus + Misc.

I’ll see if I can post my character sometime today.

StevenO · « **Reply #35 on:** November 15, 2020, 02:19:59 pm »

Quote from: Jedi Ronin on November 15, 2020, 02:15:05 pm

I had read the SAM link before and just reread it but it was still a little unclear so I asked.
Spoiler (hover to show)
So SAM:
Level (Trained) + Attribute Modifier + 2 Focus + Misc
Trained means you add your level instead of half level to a check (in place of the +5 bonus). This scales up as you gain levels
Skill Focus adds a flat +2.
Attribute adds normally.

When not targeting a Defense (e.g. Negate Energy, Deflect, Knowledge checks, Skill Challenge DCs, etc) it’s skill calculation as normal: 1/2 level + Attrubute Modifier + 5 Trained + 5 Focus + Misc.
I’ll see if I can post my character sometime today.

That's pretty much it although as I was mentioning there are some rolls you might make that target multiple things and thus would use both modifiers (independently) on the same d20.

Yen_Kaum · « **Reply #36 on:** November 15, 2020, 02:27:08 pm »

Spoiler (hover to show)

Quote from: StevenO on November 13, 2020, 05:01:14 pm

Quote from: Yen_Kaum on November 13, 2020, 09:45:13 am
....
Thanks.
Modified the stat block page 1.
Dropped Artillery shot to Targeted area
Requisitioned a GL, an assault blaster rifle, some grenades and 2 concussion grenades (qty approved ?)
Comments regarding Quick Draw and Bomb thrower (McGyver-ed frags are not compatible with GL) are noted.

Targeted Area: For that I consider a "successful area attack" to be one that hit's the target's REF (thus would normally deal full damage) instead of one that just hits the area and causes collateral damage.

I might mention that the Assault Blaster Rifle wouldn't do you much good if you're already using a Blaster Rifle and have the Riflemaster feat. The base damage and modes for each weapon is the same and Riflemaster would make the Rifle "accurate" which is all the "Assault BR" has over the standard BR except it's also a bit larger. While I guess someone could be looking at Riflemaster to use the Rifle as an "Accurate" weapon but most of the time when I see someone taking it they're looking at using a HEAVY blaster rifle and taking the 3d10 to 3d12. This is to say that having Riflemaster and a Blaster Rifle but then requesting the use of an assault blaster rifle doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I spy some "Dirty Fighting" on the list... I translate "an opponent" as being singular. Now it doesn't say how you need to deal damage to that target but if you hit multiple targets with an AoE I'd only let you choose ONE damaged target to take the -2 DT penalty. Now I guess that -2 from this and -5 from Devastating Attack w/ rifles can make the damage required to move a target move down the CT much less but you still need the damage.

Now here's something I wonder if you've considered or looked at: Instead of Scoundre1/Solder 5 go with Scoundrel3/Soldier3. Yes, this would "cost" 6 hitpoints but it'd give you a second "Scoundrel" talent instead of that third "Soldier" talent. There's a Fortune talent I've very partial too and which works well with daily FP, my "long encounter view", and a skill monkey type character plus there are some Misfortune talents that can be very nice/useful.

This isn't totally relevant but if you were going to take Bor into high levels which PrCs would you be looking at?

Thanks for the answer and the tips. Not much time right now but :
- targeted area : this is the way I understood it. I thought it could give a boost to a CT-killer shot (1/ENC obviously)
- Assault BR : I may have made a mistake in a previous edit of the stats block. I was too generous in terms of feats (gave Bor 11 instead of 10) so I ninja removed Riflemaster and chose this BR to compensate.
- Dirty fighting sounded fun. So... Voilà ! Aldo, I understood it your way.
- More scoundrel. It would also cost me 1 BAB, right ? I will have a look at it when I have time tomorrow. I am not against it, especially if it can fit in your theme and improve the experience for the team
- PrCs. I have not thought of it. I would honestly try to go the way of the RP.

StevenO · « **Reply #37 on:** November 15, 2020, 03:13:31 pm »

Quote from: Yen_Kaum on November 15, 2020, 02:27:08 pm

Spoiler (hover to show)
Thanks for the answer and the tips. Not much time right now but :
- targeted area : this is the way I understood it. I thought it could give a boost to a CT-killer shot (1/ENC obviously)
- Assault BR : I may have made a mistake in a previous edit of the stats block. I was too generous in terms of feats (gave Bor 11 instead of 10) so I ninja removed Riflemaster and chose this BR to compensate.
- Dirty fighting sounded fun. So... Voilà ! Aldo, I understood it your way.
- More scoundrel. It would also cost me 1 BAB, right ? I will have a look at it when I have time tomorrow. I am not against it, especially if it can fit in your theme and improve the experience for the team
- PrCs. I have not thought of it. I would honestly try to go the way of the RP.

When it comes to "CT-Killers" I normally look for repeatable effects. Not sure how the extra damage from Targeted area plays into that but an extra 5 damage is extremely good. I might mention that I don't consider getting hit by a splash weapon to be the same as a AoE weapon and thus shooting someone with a splash weapon would not gain that extra damage although someone subject to the splash might see it. I'm noting that Targeted Area does have a +5 BAB meaning you could take it at 6th-level with a Scoundrel/Soldier.

Now I guess Dirty Fighter isn't exactly a "CT-Killer" but can be an aid to everyone when it comes to knocking a target down the CT.

One of these times I'll need to go an compile all the "PC stat blocks" and double check for errors. Yours may not be the only one.

The first level of Scoundrel (Scout, Noble and several PrCs) "costs" a point of BAB but after that you could take 2-3 more levels without giving up more BAB before taking the 5th-level in the class. A Scoundrel1/Solder5 and Scoundrel3/Soldier3 both have the same BAB, same defense base scores, same heroic damage, and same number of feats and talents although some may be drawn from different lists. I suggest this because there are a lot of nice talents available to Scoundrel if you are not set on certain Soldier talents. Now is the hp difference significant? Maybe that 6 hp will keep you up after one additional hit depending on how the dice roll but I usually think in blocks of 10 hitpoints when it comes to "significant hp differences." From the builds I've seen so far I'd say two are about 50 hp, two are about 60 hp, one at about 80 and then there was one a 90; at present opposition builds look to be in the 50 hp range.

I only ask about PrCs as sometimes having something you might think about looking forward to can be helpful even if we aren't going to get there.

I know Merc has mentioned some family stuff so I'm not entirely sure what he's thinking right now. Looking at my own builds I might suggest he try a variation of Tyro/Pyro although the brothers are somewhat close to other builds already seen; of course a Soldier/Scoundrel is quite a bit different from a Scoundrel/Soldier despite using the same classes. The Soldier/Scoundrel has a lot more hitpoints and armor proficiencies at the cost of some skills.

MERC_1 · « **Reply #38 on:** November 15, 2020, 04:06:58 pm »

Quote from: StevenO on November 15, 2020, 03:13:31 pm

I know Merc has mentioned some family stuff so I'm not entirely sure what he's thinking right now. Looking at my own builds I might suggest he try a variation of Tyro/Pyro although the brothers are somewhat close to other builds already seen; of course a Soldier/Scoundrel is quite a bit different from a Scoundrel/Soldier despite using the same classes. The Soldier/Scoundrel has a lot more hitpoints and armor proficiencies at the cost of some skills.

I have been traveling for 2 days and is getting back to work in the morning. I'm afraid that that I'm still in the planning stage for a character. But as starting time was beginning of December I was thinking that I could do that this week?

As for the Tyro/Pyro reference, I don't get it tonight as I'm a bit tired. If those are existing builds, I could do with a link.

I was thinking of adding some battlefield control with the help of a whip in close combat, maybe some feat to boost that as well. I know Jedi get to start with a lightsaber, but what about a lightwhip? (Would love a Barab Ingot with that, but that should probably not be available at our level.) Could he just pay the difference in price? I have also looked at the Shock whip as an alternative.

I will likely go with a Soldier/Jedi build with the possibility of 1 or 3 levels of either Noble or Scoundrel. I will be looking for talents that boost the team or hinder the opponents. Not sure what would be needed by the team yet. There is also the possibility to pick up some Pilot/Heavy Weapons skills as well. Likely to be an asset in melee/ranged/vehicle combat as well as helping the others. Probably not so many skills (3-5).

Jedi Ronin · « **Reply #39 on:** November 15, 2020, 04:45:40 pm »

Character rough draft

Spoiler (hover to show)

StevenO · « **Reply #40 on:** November 15, 2020, 06:32:38 pm »

Quote from: MERC_1 on November 15, 2020, 04:06:58 pm

...
Spoiler (hover to show)
I have been traveling for 2 days and is getting back to work in the morning. I'm afraid that that I'm still in the planning stage for a character. But as starting time was beginning of December I was thinking that I could do that this week?

As for the Tyro/Pyro reference, I don't get it tonight as I'm a bit tired. If those are existing builds, I could do with a link.

I was thinking of adding some battlefield control with the help of a whip in close combat, maybe some feat to boost that as well. I know Jedi get to start with a lightsaber, but what about a lightwhip? (Would love a Barab Ingot with that, but that should probably not be available at our level.) Could he just pay the difference in price? I have also looked at the Shock whip as an alternative.

I will likely go with a Soldier/Jedi build with the possibility of 1 or 3 levels of either Noble or Scoundrel. I will be looking for talents that boost the team or hinder the opponents. Not sure what would be needed by the team yet. There is also the possibility to pick up some Pilot/Heavy Weapons skills as well. Likely to be an asset in melee/ranged/vehicle combat as well as helping the others. Probably not so many skills (3-5).

Glad to know you've had successful travels in these dark times and amid all the uncertainty. And we're not even talking Star Wars here

The Tyro/Pyro reference is to a character I played in some of the early Sandbox games and a slight variation. You can see the 13th-level versions here: http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/new-board/the-gamemasters'-encounter-sandbox-4-raid-on-the-settlement/msg31834/#msg31834 although when I start looking it should be relatively easy to see where they're likely to be at 6th-level with all the prereqs they have to meet along the way. I see JR is looking at a Skilled Advisor although Jedi has many options and if you don't consider armor that makes a couple Soldier talents a lot more malleable. Both are basic smart "Soldiers" into Gunslinger/EliteTrooper with a splash of a +4 WILL Defense PrC just to fill out formidable defense. Powerful and tight but still a surprising amount of wiggle room.

As hot as a "Fire Whip" would be the whip's base of 5000 is pretty high. I guess if you start in Jedi and discount 3k for the standard lightsaber you may have enough spare credits for it but not much else; it's certainly not something I see someone being able to "pick up" for you as you're talking a very rare crystal on a less common lightsaber. Now if you've got an idea that works around that (what's that group called again...) we can see about some credit variation.

Sounds like it may be an ambitious build.

Quote from: Jedi Ronin on November 15, 2020, 04:45:40 pm

Character rough draft

Spoiler (hover to show)

Name Here
Medium Human Noble 1/Jedi 5
Force Points
Init +; Senses Perception +

Languages Basic,

Defenses Ref 17 (flat-footed 17) Fort 17 Will 20

Hit Points , Damage Threshold
Speed 6 squares
Melee Lightsaber + 9 (2d8+2) 2-handed
Base Attack + 5
Attack Options
Special Actions Deflect, Redirect Shot

Force Powers (Use the Force + 17[12]):
Battle Strike, Farseeing, Force Slam, Mind Trick, Move Object, Vitality Transfer

Force Techniques:

Abilities STR 12 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 10 WIS 14 CHA 18

Talents Noble Fencing Style, Deflect, Redirect Shot, Skilled Advisor

Feats Force-Sensitive, Force Training (2), Skill Focus (Use the Force), Skill Focus (Gather Information), Skill Focus (Persuasion), Skill Focus (Deception), Weapon Proficiency (Lightsabers, Simple Weapons, Pistols)

Trained Skills Deception + 17 [SAM + 12], Gather Information + 17 [SAM + 12], Use the Force + 17 [SAM + 12], Knowledge (Galactic Lore) + 8, Knowledge (Bureaucracy) + 8, Persuasion + 17 [SAM + 12]

Possessions
Lightsaber:

Background:

Notes
Swap ST and DEX?
Replace Redirect Shot?
Go for CON 9 and 16 Wisdom?
Replace SF Deception for Force Training?

Ah the Consular type build...
I'll note that a human with a starting score of 17 is perhaps a bit min/maxed for my usual tastes even if you think that'll be the "only" stat you'll need. Part of my critique of Dredge's first go was putting so much into CON and thus neglecting other abilities. This is very much the type of character that can give many that "jedi are overpowered" taste

Certainly strong in the CHA skills but as "what else can I do?" especially if you don't want to be pegged with your Jedi abilities; admittedly Deception at +17 might disguise a lot of Force Powers even if I thought they were "obvious" when used which Slam and MO generally are.

I'll warn you that the way I treat Redirect Shot is that your return is as if you were attacking with that weapon. If you're not proficient in it then that would show up on the redirect. Redirect Shot is also ineffective against autofire based attacks (although Deflect can reduce damage taken).

I like Skilled Advisor and have seen it used to good effect in several games although when I was using it on a character who was already the one with the skills I'd want to assist (sadly not a lot of chance to use it to help the diplomats out) or I couldn't take the round as he needed to be doing other things instead being a main damage dealer.

I guess I am curious how he'd be portrayed at this time.

As for the Notes:
I don't know what he'd use STR for (ok, a bit of melee damage) over DEX.
You can see my comments about Redirect Shot and they may help you make up your mind. I do wonder what he'd do if caught in gunfight.
WIS 16 means more powers and better WILL. CON 9 mean fewer hp (than even the Scoundrel heavy builds) and lower FORT.
So much Skill Focus already... but also so many powers already.

Jedi Ronin · « **Reply #41 on:** November 15, 2020, 08:44:33 pm »

If 18 Charisma is too much I’ll go with 16. And bring Wisdom up to 16 as well. I’ll rework it a bit tomorrow.
Skills and Force powers are the point of this character, not combat as much. Picked up Redirect and Noble Fencing Style too add a little to combat outside Force powers (also the reason I head Strength 12 as you picked up on).
Given your house rule for Redirect I’ll drop it for something else useful.

Still working on background and history. Looking forward to playing.

StevenO · « **Reply #42 on:** November 15, 2020, 09:39:44 pm »

Quote from: Jedi Ronin on November 15, 2020, 08:44:33 pm

If 18 Charisma is too much I’ll go with 16. And bring Wisdom up to 16 as well. I’ll rework it a bit tomorrow.
Skills and Force powers are the point of this character, not combat as much. Picked up Redirect and Noble Fencing Style too add a little to combat outside Force powers (also the reason I head Strength 12 as you picked up on).
Given your house rule for Redirect I’ll drop it for something else useful.

Still working on background and history. Looking forward to playing.

Assuming stat boost into CHA and WIS starting each at 15 is 16 points leaving you 12 for the other four scores so avoiding penalties would take 8 leaving you 4 points for a 14 or a couple 12s.

At low levels my "consular types" that start in Noble might just be using a Blaster Pistol of some sort for offense which can help "sell" the idea that you're not a Jedi. The off-shoot of that is to the "dual wield" a blaster in one hand while you use an active lightsaber in the other for Block/Deflect purposes; you don't attack with both weapons (or maybe I should say you generally shouldn't) so you don't run into the -10 penalty for dual wielding when making a full attack. When it comes to being good/better in melee I'd often take the long approach figuring on Weapon Finesse and Ataru once Jedi Knight is obtained; of course that was my though for the Consular Talinn I played but I decided the damage boost wasn't enough and he had better things do do including wielding with Kinetic Combat.

Maybe combat isn't the focus of the character but I'll encourage another look at what the setup is (you're figuring an escort mission of some sort) so you can ask "how and where would I fit into that?" If you've got skills to spare Treat Injury could be a "throw away" choice (yes, I know how well Vital Transfer can work although TI could be a "cover" to use that) because while a trained surgeon may be available that still takes time.

StevenO · « **Reply #43 on:** November 16, 2020, 06:45:24 pm »

Here are the "applications" I'm currently seeing although some of them I haven't got ordered as well as I should yet:

Spoiler: Umwawa Raada (bossman/employer) (hover to show)

Strengths: Skills, support, potential bonus action, Surgical Expertise can do surgery in 10 min
Weakness: Not especially tough, pretty much pacifist, not good with vehicles. May not always be available.

Spoiler: Dredge (FakDendor) (hover to show)

Good: Tough as all hell. Strong (see stat correction). Full attack
Bad: Not especially skillful.

Spoiler: Miilc Tost (FakDendor) (hover to show)

Good: Lots of skills (maybe even too many when gained w/ feats)
Weakness: Maybe I shouldn't say it but I think this could be "tightened up" and be better.

Spoiler: Ruwarr, a free wookiee hunter (Ghondar) (hover to show)

Strength: Tough, a lot of skills, very strong melee, high STR.
Weakness: Not so strong at range.

Spoiler: Shev Ondris (Ghondar) (hover to show)

Strengths: Good Skill selection, good ranged combat, (has figured out what equipment he wants), vehicle operator
Weakness: Not as good in melee. {Missed Shake It Off first time through}

Spoiler: Bor Chun (Yen Kaum) (hover to show)

Strengths: Good skills and seems to have a plan on how they fit. Good range and especially good with AoE attacks. Vehicle operator.
Weakness: Not the toughest but has a plan for CT hits!

Spoiler: Eri’anya Plutan (sienn) (hover to show)

Admission: Haven't gone over this as well as I should yet.
Strengths: Decent fighter if not so obvious.
Weakness: Not a lot of skills

Spoiler: Name Here (Jedi Ronin) (hover to show)

As presented here, edits may be coming which could alter this but still:
Strengths: Social skills, Force Wizard, good skill support with Skilled Advisor
Weakness: Perhaps too much skill focus and not enough areas covered. Force User of this type/ability could draw unwanted attention (may draw a "don't hold back" Inquisitor squad!)

Now are these "fair" evaluations? I'll put them all here so you can easily see what is currently "at the table" especially in terms of abilities and skills. I may be seeing more "humans" than I expected but they are pretty easy to build with in so many builds.

sienn_sconn · « **Reply #44 on:** November 16, 2020, 07:21:08 pm »

I would say that your evaluations are pretty spot on. You have an eye for detail and stat blocks which, critical though it may be sometimes, helps point out just what a build can accomplish (and perhaps more importantly, what it can't).

I think that some of our weaknesses could fixed fairly easily (Eri'anya could drop some STR and gain a couple extra points to put in INT, which would give her another skill, since that seems to be her weak point). Others, maybe not so much. But we also need to remember that diversity will help us in many encounters. If we were all playing Noble 1/Soldier 5 with 14's across the board, that might be fairly boring.

Have you thought about letting us have Backgrounds from RECG? I know they are not your favorite, but it could help us diversify individual portfolios with minimal fuss.

TheSagaContinues

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