TheSagaContinues

My apologies up front for not going through this too carefully.

1.  As noted your STR modifier still applies to damage.  I don't see anything that would boost damage except for your 10 heroic levels so that's +5 -1 STR modifier = +4.  Should I assume you are using personally crafted/attuned lightsaber for the bonus from the crystal?

2.  Don't forget you can take a power more than once!  In all honesty I like Force Grip but some GMs seem to get hung up on it and basically treat it like it is a darkside power even when it is not.

Looking at your equipment I guess a potential concern is simply "how much does it weigh?"  I want to say that a sensor pack is a pretty heavy piece of equipment.

5) My main problem is that I can switch identities as a full round action, but this doesn't switch my clothing. I can't be carrying around a suitcase of disguises, is there some nice Star Wars way to solve this? The holoshroud doesn't seem to do the trick unless I have time to reprogram and I don't get close scrutiny.
I've been thinking a small stealthy (cloaked?) hovering droid with some internal storage space maybe? I can't figure out how that would translate in game mechanics or how to prevent it from being more of a liability than an asset.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I don't think you'll need to carry around a wardrobe since Clawdites can shapeshift and disguise their appearance, including clothing.

From the Wookieepedia article you just quoted from, there is at least a limited ability to change clothing: “Clawdites were also able to mimic the appearance of clothing or jewelry, provided that the item laid directly on their skin, as it was merely a manipulation of their skin's texture.” Now that doesn’t mean that if you mimic an all-temperature cloak that you’ll gain the benefits of actually having that item. It will just look like you’re wearing it.

From the Wookieepedia article you just quoted from, there is at least a limited ability to change clothing: “Clawdites were also able to mimic the appearance of clothing or jewelry, provided that the item laid directly on their skin, as it was merely a manipulation of their skin's texture.” Now that doesn’t mean that if you mimic an all-temperature cloak that you’ll gain the benefits of actually having that item. It will just look like you’re wearing it.

I also remember the Clawdite as being able to imitate "tight fitting" clothing as part of its shape changing ability.  That means no long and flowy robes and gowns but a lot of other things can fit like pants and a shirt.

I think you can argue where the limits exactly are, but "long and flowy robes and gowns" are very common in SW and exactly those are beyond the abilities of a Clawdite I think. Pants and a shirt you could argue about. Marvel's Mystique is certainly capable of pants and a shirt.

I could see that to impersonate a Twi-lek slave girl, wouldn't need much, I can see Storm trooper armor, or the Naboo defence force gear working, but many other options I would consider too challenging, like the standard Jedi robes, things that you see Palpatine, Amidala and other nobles/courtiers wear, even the vests/coats that Han Solo wears and something like the slave Leia outfit's "skirt".

And as I pointed out, sometimes I need stuff not to just look the part, but also to function. I agree I wouldn't need a huge wardrobe, but I do think that a lot of disguises would be impossible or less convincing without some extra clothing/gear. Not just to add a cape, robe or vest, but also sometimes to get rid of one. Something the size of a standard 20 kg check-in luggage would be perfect, but that's twice the amount you can conceal in a standard Medium droid. I can still settle on "tight fitting stuff only" but I was wondering what options might exist/people might come up with, as at level 10, you can have quite a bit of options in equipment and talents. I've considered the Illusion and Masqerade talents, but they require a Force Point for each use and any kind of interaction breaks it.

I want this to be the main focus of my character. I already used it a lot. In our last session we were supposed to liberate someone, but when we got to him (also using disguises), he didn't want to leave because the enemies also were holding his family hostage at an unknown location. I then decided to switch places with him, so we can discover their offworld prison location when he presumably also gets shipped there. I'm just hoping I will not be tortured or very closely searched before we discover where his family is. We're relying on UtF telepathy for the rest of the party to track me.

The conclusion might be that it's not possible, but my knowledge of SWSE is still very limited, so I was hoping people might have some ideas.

I'm already very happy that True Vision/seeing doesn't exist in this game, as that's what totally broke a similar D&D character I had.

I seem to recall an adventure from one of the previous editions where the PCs were trying to track down a shapeshifter in a crowded area.  A key bit of information in that quest was noticing the alien (making use of those Knowledge skills!) that "wasn't quite right" because something about it was off.  One example is noticing a member of a species known for wearing loose fitting clothing but who is wearing that tight garb.  BUSTED!  There were other things where the shapeshifter would give itself away by doing things that a "normal" member of a species would never do.

That's why my character does have those knowledge skills :-).

  I want to say it from the RCR edition as the d6 didn't have shapeshifters yet that I recall.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Quote from: richterbelmont10 on December 03, 2013, 11:39:01 am

From the Wookieepedia article you just quoted from, there is at least a limited ability to change clothing: “Clawdites were also able to mimic the appearance of clothing or jewelry, provided that the item laid directly on their skin, as it was merely a manipulation of their skin's texture.” Now that doesn’t mean that if you mimic an all-temperature cloak that you’ll gain the benefits of actually having that item. It will just look like you’re wearing it.

Quote from: StevenO on December 03, 2013, 12:43:34 pm

I also remember the Clawdite as being able to imitate "tight fitting" clothing as part of its shape changing ability.  That means no long and flowy robes and gowns but a lot of other things can fit like pants and a shirt.

I think you can argue where the limits exactly are, but "long and flowy robes and gowns" are very common in SW and exactly those are beyond the abilities of a Clawdite I think. Pants and a shirt you could argue about. Marvel's Mystique is certainly capable of pants and a shirt.

I could see that to impersonate a Twi-lek slave girl, wouldn't need much, I can see Storm trooper armor, or the Naboo defence force gear working, but many other options I would consider too challenging, like the standard Jedi robes, things that you see Palpatine, Amidala and other nobles/courtiers wear, even the vests/coats that Han Solo wears and something like the slave Leia outfit's "skirt".

In Scum and Villainy page 7 under the Clawdite’s Shapeshift ability, it simply states:

“Clawdites are shapechangers and can alter their appearance at will. A Clawdite gains a +10 species bonus on Deception checks made to disguise appearance. Additionally, a Clawdite can disguise its appearance as a full-round action at no penalty.”

To me, what you’re wearing is part of your disguise. On page 64 of the Core Rulebook, “disguising your appearance” is part of the Deceptive Appearance aspect of the Deception skill, which would obviously include a clothing component. I don’t see a limitation as to how long and flowing a disguise is allowed, at least as far as Saga Edition rules are concerned.

I can still settle on "tight fitting stuff only" but I was wondering what options might exist/people might come up with, as at level 10, you can have quite a bit of options in equipment and talents.

There’s the holoshroud, Force Unleashed page 101.

I've considered the Illusion and Masqerade talents, but they require a Force Point for each use and any kind of interaction breaks it.

There’s the Force Harmony talent that could help with this. You can use Illusion without spending a FP once per encounter. Also, at the next level, you can choose Force Point Recovery at Jedi Knight level 2 as your Force Technique.

I'm already very happy that True Vision/seeing doesn't exist in this game, as that's what totally broke a similar D&D character I had.

I don’t know what True Vision is, but other force-users can still detect that you are a force-user by using the Sense Force application of the UtF skill.

I'd need to go over your build again but I was just thinking about the feat available to Jedi which will allow you to cause a person to forget interacting with you with a successful UtF check.  That's what I'd use with my entertainer/freedom fighter to help cover her nefarious activities.

I believe you’re thinking of the Dampen Presence talent. (Force Unleashed page 24)

Going back on an earlier statement "tight fitting" may just be "close fitting" as opposed to being the skin hugging we may associate with tight fitting clothes.  Now I think replicating Stormtrooper armor is going too far but that may just be me.  Looking at your "cover identities" I think the Jedi could be hard to pull off assuming robes are the normal jedi dress code; I also wonder if the socialite/minor noble could be hard depending on how you envision them.

The border of where tight/close fitting would end is of course vague and I'm also reluctant to include Stormtrooper in there, and agree that certainly the standard Jedi robes would be out.

Quote from: RogerWilco on December 04, 2013, 05:17:37 am

Quote from: richterbelmont10 on December 03, 2013, 11:39:01 am

From the Wookieepedia article you just quoted from, there is at least a limited ability to change clothing: “Clawdites were also able to mimic the appearance of clothing or jewelry, provided that the item laid directly on their skin, as it was merely a manipulation of their skin's texture.” Now that doesn’t mean that if you mimic an all-temperature cloak that you’ll gain the benefits of actually having that item. It will just look like you’re wearing it.

Quote from: StevenO on December 03, 2013, 12:43:34 pm

I also remember the Clawdite as being able to imitate "tight fitting" clothing as part of its shape changing ability.  That means no long and flowy robes and gowns but a lot of other things can fit like pants and a shirt.

I think you can argue where the limits exactly are, but "long and flowy robes and gowns" are very common in SW and exactly those are beyond the abilities of a Clawdite I think. Pants and a shirt you could argue about. Marvel's Mystique is certainly capable of pants and a shirt.

I could see that to impersonate a Twi-lek slave girl, wouldn't need much, I can see Storm trooper armor, or the Naboo defence force gear working, but many other options I would consider too challenging, like the standard Jedi robes, things that you see Palpatine, Amidala and other nobles/courtiers wear, even the vests/coats that Han Solo wears and something like the slave Leia outfit's "skirt".

In Scum and Villainy page 7 under the Clawdite’s Shapeshift ability, it simply states:

“Clawdites are shapechangers and can alter their appearance at will. A Clawdite gains a +10 species bonus on Deception checks made to disguise appearance. Additionally, a Clawdite can disguise its appearance as a full-round action at no penalty.”

To me, what you’re wearing is part of your disguise. On page 64 of the Core Rulebook, “disguising your appearance” is part of the Deceptive Appearance aspect of the Deception skill, which would obviously include a clothing component. I don’t see a limitation as to how long and flowing a disguise is allowed, at least as far as Saga Edition rules are concerned.

I agree that the very minimal rules within the book itself are open to very broad interpretation. But given the rest of the available lore as referenced by the wookipedia article, a more limited interpretation seems more in line with the existing lore.
Secondly, it doesn't remove the problem that I sometimes would like to be able to access actual items, like an All Temperature Cloak or a Flight Suit.

Quote from: RogerWilco on December 04, 2013, 05:17:37 am

I can still settle on "tight fitting stuff only" but I was wondering what options might exist/people might come up with, as at level 10, you can have quite a bit of options in equipment and talents.

There’s the holoshroud, Force Unleashed page 101.

I know, I've already discussed that item. Reprogramming it takes either 1 or 10 minutes, depending on your interpretation of the Use Computer skill. My character has it, and already has been useful in some cases, but it sort of defeats the ability to be able to change disguise in a single round or less.

Quote from: RogerWilco on December 04, 2013, 05:17:37 am

I've considered the Illusion and Masqerade talents, but they require a Force Point for each use and any kind of interaction breaks it.

There’s the Force Harmony talent that could help with this. You can use Illusion without spending a FP once per encounter. Also, at the next level, you can choose Force Point Recovery at Jedi Knight level 2 as your Force Technique.

That force Technique seems useful for a lot of things and very powerful. I was indeed planning to pick it up if we continue to level 11.

Quote from: StevenO on December 04, 2013, 11:47:19 am

I'd need to go over your build again but I was just thinking about the feat available to Jedi which will allow you to cause a person to forget interacting with you with a successful UtF check.  That's what I'd use with my entertainer/freedom fighter to help cover her nefarious activities.

I believe you’re thinking of the Dampen Presence talent. (Force Unleashed page 24)

There are many fun talents. I would need to drop Block or Deflect for it though. Mind Trick already helps me to have people "move along" of which this just seems a more powerful version. While I like the suggestion, I'm not sure if it's worth it.

Quote from: StevenO on December 04, 2013, 05:18:52 pm

That "True Vision" thing Roger is talking about would probably be the "True Sight" abilities from DnD which see through ALL types of "magical" disguise and reveal a creatures "true" form.  If ported over to SAGA not only would such an ability see right through any kind of holographic based disguise it would also reveal the Shapechanger for what it is regardless of what it appears like externally.

That's what I meant, I assumed most people here have at least a passing familiarity with D&D, my apologies. I really don't like D&D for all the abilities that completely negate entire concepts and abilities, but that's for another discussion. (Freedom of Movement and Immunities are other culpits).

I know SAGA doesn't mention everything that goes into creating a disguised appearance.  While there may be a "clothing component" to a disguise I believe that is really secondary to the underlying disguise.  To me the basic rules are there to cover things like changing hair color, adding/removing hair and other "minor" features, and perhaps even doing things to alter dental appearance and perhaps even fingerprints ands such.

The Deception skill does give some examples:
Simple (std) +5: disguising yourself as someone non-specific of similar size, species, and gender
Moderate (full rnd) +0: disguising yourself as a member of another species or gender
Difficult (min+) -5: impersonating an officer well enough to give troops orders
Incredible (min+) -10:  impersonating someone well enough to convince an old friend
Outrageous (min+) -20: claiming to be the Emperor in disguise and giving orders to stormtroopers

And then that gets somewhat modified by specific abilities:

Spoiler (hover to show)

Shapeshift (full-round): Clawdites are shapechangers and alter their appearance at will (See page 64 of the core book). You gain a +10 species bonus on Deception checks made to disguise your appearance; and you can disguise your appearance as a full-round action at no penalty.

Impersonate: You can make a Deception check to alter your features to that of a specific person. This feat allows you to change your voice to match the target's. You always treat impersonating a person as a Moderate deception. Prerequisites: Shapeshift spiecies trait, Skill Focus(Deception).

Master of Disguise: You gain a +5 insight bonus to your Deception check when (creating a deceptive appearance or a forged document. In addition , you can rush the process by taking a penalty of -2 to the Deception check. Normal: When you rush the creation of a deceptive appearance or forged document, you take a -10 penalty to your Deception check.

I'm not even sure what "you can disguise your appearance as a full-round action at no penalty." actually gives a Clawdite, as the standard Moderate Deception skill already seems to do that. The additional Impersonate feat does help with doing the Difficult, Incredible and Outrageous deceptions without a penalty and as a full round action. And Master of Disguise gives a +5 to the check, or allows it as a standard action with just a -2 penalty.

That's all I have been able to gather from the mechanics of the game. I found one thing that I don't know how to interpret: Scum and Villainy page 190 has the Pol Virten NPC, were in the entry it says he can take 20 on (all?) disguise checks. Would that still be as a full round action? Braxus Lyn from page 220 of Galaxy at War doesn't have this in his NPC entry. The Pol Virten NPC is from the same book as the Clawdite race though, so might more closely reflect the intent of the writers.

There is a lot that can go into creating a deceptive appearance and while a change of clothes can often go a long way to creating a new look you can also change a lot about someone even if you keep them in the same attire.  While the ladies in Hollywood may often wear completely different clothes the gents are often dressed very similarly but the "person" you see could be completely different.

I feel this is less true in Star Wars, especially if you look at the prequels.

Quote from: RogerWilco on December 05, 2013, 08:49:11 am

That's all I have been able to gather from the mechanics of the game. I found one thing that I don't know how to interpret: Scum and Villainy page 190 has the Pol Virten NPC, were in the entry it says he can take 20 on (all?) disguise checks.

I can’t figure out what is giving this NPC this ability.

It's a misprint.  No terribly surprising, though.

With a few switches, however, it could work.  You need Art of Concealment (FUCG 27, can take 10 on Stealth to conceal item and it's a swift action) and Fast Talker (FUCG 27, 1/day take 20 on Deception check to Deceive).