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Author Topic: Help me determine best level order for my character  (Read 700 times)

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Help me determine best level order for my character
« on: July 03, 2020, 11:03:18 pm »
I'm working on a build that's a continuation of a build (sienn_sconn from http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/the-arena/ultimate-dream-build-11-the-grand-melee/). I know the levels and the Feats/Talents that I'm wanting to run, I just cannot for the life of me figure out the best order to take the levels and feats/talents. We're running Dawn of Defiance, and our DM wants to run the entire thing so we're guaranteed to hit level 20. Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if there's any other info that is pertinent I'm more than happy to give it. Thanks for the help!!

Soldier (9) / Scoundrel (1) / Elite Trooper (7) / Noble (3)

Feats: Weapon Focus (Simple), Martial Arts I, Recovering Surge, Unstoppable Force, Fast Surge, Grand Army of the Republic Training, Extra Second Wind, Unstoppable Combatant, Accelerated Strike, Double Attack, Triple Crit, Triple Attack, Point-Blank Shot* (Scoundrel Feat), Linguist* (Noble Feat)

Soldier Talents: Melee Smash (Brawler), Unrelenting Assault (Brawler), Armored Defense (Armored Specialist), Imp. Armored Defense (Armored Specialist), Juggernaut (Armored Specialist)
Scoundrel Talents: Stymie (Misfortune)
Elite Trooper Talents: Flurry Attack (Critical Master), Whirling Death (Melee Specialist), Extended Crit. Range (Critical Master), Mandalorian Glory (Mandalorian Warrior), Armored Mandalorian (Mandalorian Warrior)
Noble Talents: Face the Foe (Gambling Leader), Luck Favors the Bold (Gambling Leader)
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 11:08:05 pm by Rookseven »
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2020, 05:38:20 am »
I think I already commented on that on reddit.
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2020, 11:37:59 am »
In both this and the Reddit thread, even though I got some great advice, I didn't get the help I was looking for. So let me ask instead, which of these two builds would be more effective for playing through Dawn of Defiance? The first one’s order is more defensively spec’ed, while the second one is a little more offensively spec’ed. Again, any assistance would be appreciated.

Defensive
Lvl 1: Soldier 1; Extra Second Wind (Lvl Feat), Melee Smash
Lvl 2: Soldier 2; Martial Arts I (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 3: Soldier 3; Unstoppable Combatant (Lvl Feat), Unrelenting Assault
Lvl 4: Soldier 4; Grand Army of the Republic Training (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 5: Soldier 5; Armored Defense
Lvl 6: Soldier 6; Accelerated Strike (Lvl Feat), Double Attack (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 7: Soldier 7; Improved Armored Defense
Lvl 8: Noble 1; Linguist (Noble Feat), Face the Foe
Lvl 9: Noble 2; Unstoppable Force (Lvl Feat), Recovering Surge (Noble Feat)
Lvl 10: Noble 3; Luck Favors the Bold
Lvl 11: Soldier 8; Triple Attack (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 12: Scoundrel 1; Fast Surge (Lvl Feat), Point-Blank Shot (Scoundrel Feat), Stymie
Lvl 13: Elite Trooper 1; Mandalorian Glory
Lvl 14: Elite Trooper 2; Damage Reduction/1 (ET Ability)
Lvl 15: Elite Trooper 3; Weapon Focus – Simple (Lvl Feat),  Armored Mandalorian
Lvl 16: Soldier 9; Juggernaut
Lvl 17: Elite Trooper 4; Damage Reduction/2 (ET Ability)
Lvl 18: Elite Trooper 5; Triple Crit (Lvl Feat), Extended Critical Range
Lvl 19: Elite Trooper 6; Damage Reduction/3 (ET Ability)
Lvl 20: Elite Trooper 7; Whirling Death

Offensive
Lvl 1: Soldier 1; Extra Second Wind (Lvl Feat), Melee Smash
Lvl 2: Soldier 2; Martial Arts I (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 3: Soldier 3; Unstoppable Combatant (Lvl Feat), Unrelenting Assault
Lvl 4: Soldier 4; Grand Army of the Republic Training (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 5: Soldier 5; Armored Defense
Lvl 6: Soldier 6; Weapon Focus - Simple (Lvl Feat), Double Attack (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 7: Soldier 7; Improved Armored Defense
Lvl 8: Noble 1; Linguist (Noble Feat), Face the Foe
Lvl 9: Noble 2; Triple Crit (Lvl Feat), Recovering Surge (Noble Feat)
Lvl 10: Noble 3; Luck Favors the Bold
Lvl 11: Soldier 8; Triple Attack (Soldier Feat)
Lvl 12: Scoundrel 1; Unstoppable Force (Lvl Feat), Point-Blank Shot (Scoundrel Feat), Stymie
Lvl 13: Elite Trooper 1; Extended Critical Range
Lvl 14: Soldier 9; Juggernaut
Lvl 15: Elite Trooper 2; Accelerated Strike (Lvl Feat), Damage Reduction/1 (ET Ability)
Lvl 16: Elite Trooper 3; Flurry Attack
Lvl 17: Elite Trooper 4; Damage Reduction/2 (ET Ability)
Lvl 18: Elite Trooper 5; Fast Surge (Lvl Feat), Mandalorian Glory
Lvl 19: Elite Trooper 6; Damage Reduction/3 (ET Ability)
Lvl 20: Elite Trooper 7; Armored Mandalorian

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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2020, 01:05:27 pm »
Even if it's just the first level of it I'd try getting the first level of Elite Trooper as quickly as possible.  Taking it at 8th-level instead of 13th gets you the +4 class bonus to FORT five level earlier and gets you access to Delay Damage which could really save your butt if you start taking major damage but haven't been able to activate Second Wind yet.

I know you've got a number of things there that are very equipment dependent and that could influence when, or even if, I'd take certain things.  Also remember that Double-Triple Attack, and Triple Crit are weapon class specific.  I question the use of Simple Weapons via Weapon Focus and the extended crit range talent (ET doesn't get AMW).
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2020, 02:11:27 pm »
That makes a lot of sense to want Delay Damage as soon as possible. I think I was so focused on everything else that I was ignoring the forest for the trees. And yeah, sorry, I’m going with scienn_sconn’s take to use the War Sword for all of these Feats/Talents to fit the flavor of the background I wrote up.

Weapon Focus was not my first thought for that Feat slot, I had a convo with someone who pointed out that 1 point of Melee AB can help. Do you have any thoughts on a replacement that would work better?

And I’m sorry, I’m new so I’m still learning the acronym’s for a lot of these. Does AMW stand for Armored Mandalorian from the Mandalorian Warrior Tree? If so I was under the impression that that is only found in the ET tree.
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2020, 04:40:49 pm »
Sorry about the abbreviations.  Generally I use AMW for Advanced Melee Weapons; in the context Elite Trooper (ET here for short) has options to take Extended Critical Range for Rifles, Heavy Weapons, and Simple Weapons but no option for Advanced Melee Weapons or Pistols.

Oddly, I'm not opposed to Weapon Focus if you pretty much stick with one class of weapon.  In SWSE that +1 attack can certainly be very important especially as many time characters will need to roll 11+ to hit a target; if you need an 11+ to hit a +1 attack will have you hitting 10% more often (this is now you hit 11 times instead of 10 and 11 is 10% more) but if you need a 16+ to hit now that +1 has you hitting 20% more (6/5).  I know some people like to go and look at damage boosts before attack boosts and maybe the average can work out about even  but against harder to hit opponent's the extra damage doesn't do much good if you can't hit.

When it comes to Elite Trooper talents I might go with Strength in Number over the two Mandalorian talents.  SiN is +2 to your class DR if you're within 10 squares of an ally while Armored Mandalorian can let you use your armor's FORT at DR (subject to ET level) it's two talents deep and subject to the armor you're wearing.
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2020, 07:37:51 pm »
Extra Second Wind may not be that great at first level. As you should likely not be challenged that ghard and in as many encounters a day that early. But this holds for this campaign I leave unsaid.

Unstoppable Force is a great feat if you face many force users, and this the skill VS defences being so powerful at early levels you don't want to wait too long for this one. Maybe not a first level feat, but why not if you fear force users?
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2020, 07:58:51 pm »
This may be metagaming but you shouldn't need Unstoppable Force before the 4th installment which would mean getting it between 6-7 level.  "Missing it" the first time you go against Force Users may be an excuse to pick it up afterwards but getting it at 9th should work as it hits most of the Force User adventures.

Part of me wonders if this character will have too much dependence on armor as some missions don't really allow for it and especially not the heavy stuff.  Along these lines I'd rather take Improved Defenses that Grand Army of the Republic training if I could swing it; maybe not as much WILL boost but a REF and FORT boost.  If you worry about Defense Scores you want to figure out how to get the PrCs that have +4 class bonuses to those other scores; here you've just got +4 FORT and +2 REF and WILL.
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2020, 09:32:07 pm »
I don't have much time right now, so I'll try and post more later, but firstly, awesome that one of my ideas sparked someone's imagination :)

Part of my original thought with the build was to start in Soldier 1 to grab the most intial hp, then go three levels of Noble for the bonus hp, then push Soldier 5 to quailfy for Elite trooper and take ET 1 as level 9.  You don't fall to far back from getting the Elite trooper bonuses, but you get all the bonus hp much earlier, which can save you pain down the road.

More on this tomorrow.
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2020, 10:31:14 pm »
Quote from: sienn_sconn on July 07, 2020, 09:32:07 pm
...
Part of my original thought with the build was to start in Soldier 1 to grab the most intial hp, then go three levels of Noble for the bonus hp, then push Soldier 5 to quailfy for Elite trooper and take ET 1 as level 9....

And this is why it can be so helpful to ask.  FtF early is to make up for the BAB loss to Noble and while the "half level" part of LFtB may not be much just 5 temporary hp/round can be so helpful.
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Re: Help me determine best level order for my character
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2020, 05:06:49 pm »
Regarding weapon choice, the primary reason why I used a war sword as my original build suggests was actually quite simple:  I didn't have the feats for Advanced Melee Weapons or an Exotic weapon, in addition to the fact that I actually anticipated that very few attacks were actually going to hit a Jedi (what with Block and their own Reflex), so the number of damage dice became a very small calculation in the build's design.

Regarding leveling, perhaps it would be better to pick up Scoundrel after Noble, then you get the free Point Blank Shot.  In truth, it does delay Elite Trooper another level, but you need either PBS or Flurry to get into ET, plus Stymie can be start being used, so make of that what you will.

I'd also put more Second Winds further down the path and get Fast Surge earlier.  Your swift actions are going to be already queued up with Stymie, so a free action second wind is simply good action economy.  And I think you are doing right by getting Double Attack and Triple Attack as soon as possible.  Guaranteed damage never felt so good.
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