Author Topic: MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons  (Read 1848 times)

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MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons
« on: June 12, 2023, 01:17:10 pm »
So, I have considered converting  some interesting Exotic weapons from RCR for some time. Some will be very straightforward and others may be more complicated. Please help out with suggestions and balance issues. If you have a suggestion for what to cover next, that would also be excellent.

My first attempt will be the:

Zenji Needle
Damage 1d4 (19-20) Piercing
Range increment 4 meters
Tiny, 0.1kg

I'm thinking that 1d4 is a bit low for an exotic weapon balance wise. Possibly 1d6 is a bit more reasonable.

The 40 meter range falls in the middle between Trown Weapons and Simple Weapons. Possibly making it an accurate Thrown Weapon would work.

Any ideas?

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Re: MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2023, 05:33:46 pm »
I think calling it an accurate weapon and improving damage to 1d6 would be fine.  The description on Wookieepedia supports the idea of being a balanced weapon combined with enough weight to piece stormtrooper armor if the throw uses enough force.  Most exotic weapons happen to have other qualities associated with them as well, so perhaps to make it stand out from knives or other similar simple weapons, it could have an additional unique quality or two.  For example, the first time we see zenji needles is in the Thrawn Trilogy (Timothy Zahn), when those who see them initially mistake them for hair ornaments.  In addition, zenji needles are designed to be thrown quickly and often see multiple needles thrown at the same target, so aligning them with a feat bonus might be interesting as well.

Zenji Needle
Weapon Type: Exotic Weapons (Ranged, thrown)
Size: Tiny
Cost: 50
Damage: 1d6
Stun Setting: NO
Rate of Fire: Single-Shot
Weight: 0.1 Kilogram
Type: Piercing
Availability: Rare
Accurate:  This weapon takes no penalty to attack rolls when thrown at targets at Short Range.
Special:  You do not take the -2 penalty when using this weapon with Rapid Shot if you have multiple zenji needles.  The zenji needle's size, shape, and ornamental jewel give the wearer a +10 Equipment bonus to Deception checks for the purpose of hiding its presence if the wielder has hair that is shoulder length or longer and the hair has been styled.
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Re: MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2023, 06:50:20 pm »
...

Zenji Needle
Damage 1d4 (19-20) Piercing
Range increment 4 meters
Tiny, 0.1kg
...


Are these the RCR stats?  Having those can help provide a basis.

From what I see there I'm not even sure they should be exotic weapons to start with.  Seems more like some simple thrown weapon although that then begs a comparison to similar weapons.

If/when you start dealing with exotic weapons I'm not sure damage is really the thing to key in on but rather more unique features that you really don't see in other weapons and especially weapon categories.

Dealing 1d4 as a tiny weapon is likely on rate.  All them to be draw as a free action and thus potentially benefit from something like Rapid Shot you may be looking at functionality that pushes it more toward exotic requirements.
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Re: MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2023, 09:26:59 pm »
Thank you both for your response to my question.

I do like the write up by Sienn Sconn a lot. I will have to read up the rules for concealing a weapon or object. But having the weapon hide in plain sight is an attractive feature.

I may like StevenO's idea of having it be easy to draw more than enhancing Rapid Shot. Both are certainly worth considering.

To answer StevenO's question, the Weapon comes from Heroes Guide (RCR). While I see your point about the damage, Exotic Weapons in SAGA generally do one or two points of damage more than a similar Simple Weapon on average. The best comparison would be with other Tiny Exotic weapons. There are only two of those: Shyarn (3d4) and the Tehk'la Blade (2d6). In light of that 1d4 is just too low.



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Re: MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2023, 11:11:39 pm »
The Tehk'la Blade is really far too good especially when it can be treated by some as a simple weapon.

The Shyarn is really weird.  Looked up it's initial appearance in the UAA and it's basically a 3.5 Scimitar (medium size, 1d6 damage, 18-20 threat range) and there's no rhyme or reason for is DRASTIC alterations change in stats for KotOR. (tiny, 3d4 damage, unpenalized Rapid Strike, dirt cheap!)  Maybe they get an exotic designation for some special reason but stats shouldn't be it although both of those weapons area bit nuts.  In KotOR the Shyarn almost sound more like a very short ranged energy blaster posing as a melee weapon.

I'll stand behind my thoughts that the Zenji Needles do NOT need to deal more damage.  If I want them to hit harder (and "getting through Stormtrooper armor" just means a good attack) I might have them treat DT as say 5 points lower.  There are a lot of little things to consider but I really wouldn't make these darts deal any more damage.
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Re: MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2023, 01:00:17 pm »
You know that I agree with you on the Tehk'la Blade. It either needs to be bigger in size or deal a bit less damage. We had that discussion about 2 years ago on this forum I think. But I had to bring it up as that's one of only two weapons of the right size.

If we ignore the Amphistaff, there is no exotic weapon that does only 1d4 damage. We are ignoring that one as it has poison and reach and can pin targets and so on. Damage is really not the most important thing there.

The Tehk'la Blade and Shyarn are not the only Exotic weapons that have exaggerated damage. Allmost every one has it. The only ones that do single dice damage are Fira (1d8) and Dark Sticks (1d6/2d8). The Fira can deal half as much damage next turn if it hits Fortitude Defense as well, something that is often likely to be lower than Reflex Defense. That is probably even worse than the Tehk'la Blade. You get to double dip in level based damage and other increases as well as the 1d8. Dark Sticks may do 1d6 when thrown, but you are supposed to wield more than one in a hand and do 2d8 damage.

My conclusions is that 1d4 would be fine if it was a Simple Weapon. For an Exotic Weapon 1d6 is pretty much as low as it goes. That is still only half of what a Shyarn or Tehk'la Blade do.

But as always, we don't have to agree. I just think that most Exotic Weapons are having a damage dice one step bigger than we would otherwise expect. If that is they way it's supposed to be is a different question. But that is the way it is.

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Re: MERC_1's conversions of Exotic Weapons
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2023, 02:22:06 pm »
Next object to be converted is this

"Kashyyyk Long-Gun
Weapon Type: Long-gun
Proficiency Group: Exotic (long-gun)
Cost: 2,000
Damage: 3d12
Critical: 20
Range Increment: 10 m
Weight: 8 kg
Fort DC: —
Type: Energy
Multifire/Autofire: —
Size: Large
Hardness: 5
WP: 10
Break DC: 2
Availability: Specialized, restricted
Era: Rise of the Empire, Rebellion
Special: This weapon fires 10 shots before needing to be reloaded. It uses a 10-shot clip of ammunition (cost150).

This weapon, devastating in stopping power, is used almost exclusively by the Wookiees of Kashyyyk. Its bronzium alloy
barrel lacks sights or a scope, limiting it to relatively short range fighting, much like a bowcaster. Because of the
weapon’s size, weight, and powerful recoil, you must have a Strength of 15 or greater to gain the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (long-gun) feat."

This probably don't need much changes.

I guess it would use rifle ranges but be inaccurate? Using Pistol ranges would be an alternative. But that is a bit too restrictive in my opinion. The Weapon itself may be too powerful for SAGA. As always, all input is welcome.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2023, 02:23:58 pm by MERC_1 »