TheSagaContinues

Oh, I completely forgot about zero range and the synergy with advantageous opening for a suicidal gunslinger.  Sprinkle in dodge/mobility/training surge.  But that'd be the main focus of the build (provoking AoOs and farming 1s for big blast on the person who dared attack), and also super risky (getting attack is bad because nat 20s).  That's a bunch of feats and requirements when you factor in quick draw/point blank/precise and especially when you want the force on top. (Scoundrel and Jedi mix might get by, but probably a feat short before gunslinger)

I'm currently playing a melee advantageous opener in a dawn game (level 4), but keep on having to throw my survival knife to make free attacks (averaging 1 per encounter if you're curious).  Here's a place where running attack shines btw.  I'm often on move up to finish off the guy the Jedi is attacking, and then moving on to the next guy hoping for 1s in the round/provoking AoOs.  Good thing I've got martial arts as backup for melee (elite trooper requirement heh).  The gunslinger full attack then move talent isn't nearly as good as the melee duelist versions, so I can't give you much advice for gunslinger (I actually dislike the class tbh).  Maybe rapid shot and the talent already suggested taken together at level 9.  Fate's favored (on my list at higher levels along with the much weaker elite trooper version) would only be good if you can lower your crit range and consistently hit on those numbers.  Lowering the crit range of pistols isn't a thing as far as I'm aware.  With knives mine is gonna be 18-20. (I say knives, but you know I mean tehk'la blades heh, so I'm glad they're not good according to the new handbook.)

The advice I give most players.

Evasion is important if you're gonna be out in the open.  Running Attack is a must for most characters (this helps 5e players immensely).  Assured Attack is the most damaging feat in the system if you're rolling d8s and higher, and works on all weapons that give multiple dice.  Multiple attacks are very niche, and 90% of characters shouldn't even consider it.  Force Trainings are great, but at most you want 3.  If you feel you need more, pick up Recall talent from Jedi consular tree instead.  This is reflected in the books.  The 'insert feat here' even level ability for non-force prestige classes are all terrible.  It's often better to dip into prestige for low hanging talents and the defense bonus than stay in them.  The base classes, particularly Jedi and Soldier's higher level feat access make them just plain better.  The extra action point isn't enough.  It's a major flaw in the system.  Luckily most games don't get high enough level for this to manifest.  This isn't the case for Jedi Knights or Force Adepts however, force techniques and secrets are just bonkers.  The large talent chains in the prestige class were meant to make up for this, but they don't work as intended imho.

Can anybody clarify if evasion works in space with references.  I've been using it that way but a player just rage quit because they had vehicular evasion.

Hi guys, just venting.  Over on roll20 a slew of Saga games have popped up over Rogue One being released.  Unfortunately, this time around they all seem to be employing stat rolls.  This lead me to a great experience where someone point blank told me they rolled 3 18s a 17 and a couple 16s on 4d6 drop lowest reroll 1s.  Unfortunately while everyone else had rolled in a visible area this guy did not and was calling me a jerk for saying his claim is BS.  This is after joining another game where someone legit rolled really well in a viewable area (ditched that one asap as i rolled unplayable stats equal to a 9 pb but just high enough to escape the too low rule).

Anywho, for other people who are thinking about playing Saga or running it.  If you'd like to use the prefab enemies in the books, stick to the 25-28 pb range.  If you want to play a powerful game, raise the point buy.  Don't expect the game to work smoothly with weird random rolls for stats.

Ask the GM if he wants to run a force focused game or not.  If he doesn't, then that solves the force being overpowered aspect of the game.  If he does, then most if not all of the players should be force users to some degree (and if not, droids are easily as strong if not stronger than your average jedi type).  The only thing that will effect is how they deal with NPCs, something the GM controls.  I personally appreciate when my player's characters can hold their own or do amazing things.  That's part of the appeal of the setting.  I never felt the need to counter the force using what is provided in the books.  That's the kind of lazying GMing you see in D&D with antimagic fields.

I'm currently trying to convince a GM that my scout who took force sensitivity and force training at level 1 is a Jedi.  He's insisting I start with the Jedi class.  What do I think of the Jedi class? It's bollocks.  It causes the stupidest arguments by its very nature.

I assured the GM i'll be multiclassing into Jedi eventually, but it's not working.  Thanks game designers.

Update: GM flipped the table on me after I pointed him here to see that the class has very little to do with Jedi.  I decided to quit while ahead and just bow out of the game.  I can only point out so many instances of characters who were Jedi and didn't start out with the class.  It's okay tho, since his "point buy" was 40 points 1:1 ratio added start 8, over 18 base, under 8 to get points.

It seems to be a running theme, any game with a high point buy is destined to fail.

Quote from: MarioFanaticXV on April 26, 2015, 04:18:03 pm

Quote from: StevenO on April 26, 2015, 03:36:25 pm

For the Hunter's Mark and Debilitating Shot talents a "successful attack" will be one that hits the target's REF Defense and deals as least 1 hitpoint worth of damage.

In Saga, any attack that hits deals at least one point of damage, even if Damage Reduction would otherwise make them immune.

No.

Now the damage an attack COULD do will always be at least 1 (like say a knife wielded by someone with STR 2) but any number of effects can counter the attack to result in no damage and ultimately a miss.

Lets say you shoot at a Jedi who has the Force Shield power up and being maintained, has the Damage Reduction talent active, and has the Deflect talent.  Even if you roll a natural 20 against that character there are three thing which could turn that 'critical hit' into an attack that actually is a miss.  First you have the Deflect talent which can just negate the attack if the UtF check is high enough.  After that you have the active SR to reduce any damage rolled which could potentially negate the attack.  If some damage overcomes the SR then it runs into the characters DR 10 and that can potentially negate the rest of the damage and thus the successful attack.

There is no such thing as "negative damage" but there are things that can completely negate damage.

I am the only one who finds it highly ironic that your example is easier to pull off than my original observation about autofire/dastardly strike, and is vastly overpowered comparatively?  Not to mention all the Jedi in my party have force shield and deflect, and my character happens to be the only non-jedi.

I also appreciate that everybody assumed I was doing this on purpose and not asking a legitimate rules question.  You also assumed very incorrectly that I'm playing a CT killer.

As for the comment on escalation and the GM can do it too: What am I supposed to do now that the GM is using heavy weapons to try to overcome the jedi's defenses?  Does my original observation and interpretation seem more reasonable now?