TheSagaContinues
Star Wars Saga Edition => Star Wars Saga Edition General => Topic started by: Mobiuszero on September 17, 2022, 04:26:36 am
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Your attempting to pull of a VERY challenging situation and if I read it as using 3rd level PCs to do it that may make things all that much more challenging as there is less space to put in things without being overwhelming. I've taken part in a "wave battle" but in that we were 10th level characters; I was also planning on trying something closer to what you have with a swoop bike gang attacking a convoy but even then I was thinking 6th-level characters. If/when doing waves my thought is that you should have a wave or two (or more) be "optional" depending on how the PCs are doing and how the players are enjoying it; to be honest it can be quite refreshing to be playing defense when you've had time to set up and know they have to come to you.
Some of your "prep work" you might want to treat as a Skill Challenge (GoI) where the results of those can help determine how much/strong challenge the PCs face in direct combat.
Now I don't know just how the PCs are built but when the fight starts I'd be treating everything as one "encounter" as far as abilities go and for the duration of things that last until the "End of the Encounter." Maybe your PCs are full of "once per encounter" abilities and thus benefit from counting multiple encounters but I'm thinking about things that may have a cost (like say a FP) or are limited to once per day but which have benefits that will last UEoE. It may all be one "encounter" but that doesn't mean there can't be breaks in the fighting to give a little time for First Aid (although doing that under fire can be exciting), to reposition/reload, and even enough time for that Force User to restore her Force Suite.
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by treating the Rider and Swoop as a single creature. For the most part they already will act as a single unit (or more accurately the rider acts using the swoop as equipment) although I can kind of see what you mean with two different sets of durability; often this wouldn't matter as the players are most likely to target one or the other but when writing up the stat block I'd put the swoop's durability right with it's operator to make it easier to find and track. Using Autofire or another AoE against a swoop bike and it's rider certainly could hit both for damage BUT check to see if the bike is granting any Cover which could negate any "half damage" effects.
A little something I've house ruled that might make shooting at crew a bit less appealing is that I'd allow it to use the Vehicle's DEX - size modifier to determine it's REF defense instead of its own DEX score against outside attack. Looking at the 74-Z speeder bike in the SECR as an example this would mean it rider could get the +7 DEX -1 Size = +6 bonus to REF instead of his normal DEX bonus which is probably +0 for a non-heroic crew. The logic behind this is that the speed/maneuverability are already making the vehicle harder to hit you'd expect them to also make anyone on that vehicle harder to hit.
Having boss type character that might fight on after the vehicle is disabled/destroyed (you may want to take a look at the difference) is certainly something I could get behind. It probably changes the dynamics a bit but I was considering that possibly in an encounter where I had a AT-RT mounted officer leading a platoon of Stormtroopers where those troopers were sorted into Squads (CWCG) to make running them easier. I'm not sure how many PCs you've got but when running wave attacks you might consider using Squads to represent 3-4 individuals as a single unit to make management easier.
Is there a right way of running this fight? And is there a ruling on this that I missed or some web enhancement quote that answerers this? This almost ruined a great session.
The "right way" of running this fight is going to be what ever works for you.
I'm not entirely sure which answer you're looking for so I can't speak to what you may have missed but I don't recall any web content that would be especially helpful in this. MAYBE the mini game's "Dark Hellion Marauder on Swoop Bike" has something said about it in relation to the RPG but it doesn't jump to mind.
PS. I started this reply some 7 hours before I'm getting it finished but do see the was at least one reply already.
Edit: PPS: Here is the PBP that both Sienn and I were part of that run a wave based encounter: http://thesagacontinues.createaforum.com/gameplay-area/gamemasters'-sandbox-assault-on-the-trenches/
I'll admit that were I to run it I'd have made a few changes and if done as a part of a campaign probably even some more.
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From the reading of this adventure, I feel that some Seven Samurai inspiration was involved as well ;D
I don't think there is one right or wrong way to run this encounter. It all depends on the style of the GM (I did a Dawn of Defiance campaign and there is a swoop gang led by some gal named Kessra, i changed her and her minions to use shock whips to knock down heroes and also drag them around the map, my players had a hoot over that). Myself, I'd be ok tracking both swoop and rider HP, but I also confess that my memory combined with the cheat sheets I use make that easier for me than it might be for other people.
Also, I'm somewhat confused. Did this encounter already happen, or is will it happen soon?
I would say that treating a character on a mount/speeder as a single entity is fine. I might give the swoop riders the Mounted Defense feat (https://swse.fandom.com/wiki/Mounted_Defense) and then allow the swoop's DR to apply to the rider, since I'm not using the swoop HP or Ref Defense. Or give the swoop riders a different bonus feat to simulate their swoop (such as Toughness for extra HP, or Running Attack to simulate shooting on the move).
I don't personally see anything wrong with the heroes using Autofire to hit swoop riders, as players often come up with imaginative ways to defeat their foes. You might require them to keep track of their Autofire attacks so they at least have to swap out power packs (though that may be a detail that others don't want to deal with).
I don't have many ideas for mini encounters, but if you follow the '3 types of opponent' rule I read about once, that can make an encounter more interesting. The first wave, you have foot soldiers and swoops mentioned. Maybe throw in a couple battle droids or attack dogs that behave differently than the other combatants. If I'm fighting 4 stormtroopers with rifles, an officer with a pistol, and a probe droid with a blaster cannon, I need to make some tactical decisions as my first action. Do I shoot the officer before he inspires the troopers? I can only hit any 2 troopers with a grenade, but it would drop two enemies out of the fight. Maybe I need to hit the droid with a missile to eliminate the biggest threat. Making combat into a interesting puzzle to solve can help with encounter building.
There is a Pathfinder adventure called Defenders of Nesting Swallow that has a similar premise of defense with waves of bandits attacking a village. One of the main points made in the adventure is strengthening Village Defense by training villagers, flooding a field, building barricades, etc. The adventure uses the threshold of 10/13/16/19/etc Defense Points to say, "ok, at 10 Defense Points, some archer got a lucky hit on a bandit and he goes down before the encounter starts, at 13 points another one got bogged down in the sunken field after his horse falls and he decides to escape rather than fight." This simulates the villagers helping, but without the need to have the GM's eyes on HP or Defenses. That allows you to focus on the heroes.
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Ok so this is kinda complicated. The the finale of this Level 3 adventure is inspired by the Clone Wars episode Bounty Hunters. I drew a lot of narrative from Firefly Heart of Gold. So this is unapologetically Seven Samurai. The party finds a village in trouble and in exchange for their help they will be given a lift off world. I gave them a few days to explore the village and make a plan. This included a training montage and building traps and explosives. They even have a "Tank" of their own from part one of this adventure. The Raiders are a swoop gang led by a Rodian Pirate that wears partial Mandalorian Armor. After the Rodian delivers his ultimatum, they attack the next day. This is where I need help.
So in order to save as much headache as possible, I arranged the defenders as a hazard that attacks three squares each at the end of each round at +5 2d6 damage half on miss.
I put Key NPC's on the map as separate events happening during the battle. I can use some fresh ideas for mini encounters during the battle. This is so the heroes can be more heroic and I don't have to waste time rolling against myself. But my real problem comes from the raiders themselves. They come in in three waves. several on foot and 6 swoops, Wave two is a Skiff with laser cannon and 6 more on foot escorted by 3 swoops, and finally wave 3 is the Rodian and two Swoops, That is a lot to keep track of. I separated the first and second wave as separate encounters with a couple minutes in-between. Just to give the party time for first aids such.
So you got the idea of what I'm doing now comes for the real question. Can I treat a Swoop and its rider as a single creature for simplicity's sake? Having to manage multiple defenses, conditions, and Hit points for so many participants is very taxing. It's my understanding that this system was designed specifically for faster gameplay and is based on the rules for the minis game. Some of the traps the party will be allowed to make are designed to dismount a speeder. Hell I don't even bother putting the rider on the board and the Swoop wrecks. But I had to pause the game for more time than I am willing to admit over an augment about attacking the drivers with auto-fire attacks reasoning that they would hit both the bike and rider since the latter will have less HP and no DR. The only enemy That I allowed them to shoot while driving was the Rodian cause once his speeder is disabled or destroyed he will keep on fighting as a boss in his second stage.
Is there a right way of running this fight? And is there a ruling on this that I missed or some web enhancement quote that answerers this? This almost ruined a great session.