Author Topic: Zama-Shiwo  (Read 120 times)

Leonhem

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Zama-Shiwo
« on: December 01, 2018, 03:19:30 pm »
Just to get some opinions on this Martial Arts Style Feat, based on what was used by Chirrut Îmwe.

Zama-Shiwo Training –
You are trained in the Zama-shiwo style of Martial Arts. Granting
you increased bodily control and spacial awareness.
   Prerequisites: Martial Arts I, Trained in Endurance and Perception
   Benefit: You are able to use the “Breath Control”, “Force Trance”,
and “Sense Surroundings” applications of the Use the Force skill.
Breath Control and Force Trance are used with the Endurance skill,
while Sense Surroundings is used via the Perception skill.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2018, 03:59:06 pm by StevenO »

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Leonhem

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2018, 03:25:12 pm »
In my half asleep state I seem to have placed this in the wrong place

StevenO

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2018, 04:25:07 pm »
Moved it for you.

The simplest argument is that you do NOT need some new feat for those things, you just take Force Sensitivity.  Of course Sense Surrounding can be used with an untrained UtF check while Breath Control and Force Trance require UtF but having both of those skills trained as a requirement seems very excessive.  Maybe there is one but I can't think of any Feat that have multiple trained skills as prereqs.
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Leonhem

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2018, 04:54:40 pm »
Thanks StevenO.

MERC_1

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2018, 05:40:45 pm »
I could see a Martial Arts feat grant access to one of those uses of Use the Force skill, but it really should have some martial arts benefit! It is an interesting and novel feat, but it does not entirely fit the bill. 

StevenO

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2018, 06:41:55 pm »
I could see a Martial Arts feat grant access to one of those uses of Use the Force skill, but it really should have some martial arts benefit! It is an interesting and novel feat, but it does not entirely fit the bill. 
On this note the one that really may make the most sense is Sense Surroundings (granted that's what Perception checks are for anyway) ability if it granted some ability to strike a target that is unaware of you or believes that you are unaware of it.
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fairytalejedi

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 09:02:48 am »
I like it, though I would suggest the following changes:

Zama-Shiwo Training (martial arts feat)
Prerequisites: Martial Arts I, Trained in Initiative and Perception
Benefit: You are able to use the “Sense Surroundings” application of the Use the Force skill, substituting Perception for Use the Force to activate the ability.

Zama-Shiwo Expertise (Martial Arts Forms talent tree)
Benefit: You may select one Force talent from the Control talent tree, even if you do not possess the Force Sensitivity feat.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 08:34:42 pm by fairytalejedi »
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MERC_1

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2018, 06:29:10 pm »
I like it, though I would suggest the following changes:

Zama-Shiwo Training (martial arts feat)
Prerequisites: Martial Arts I, Trained in Initiative and Perception
Benefit: You are able to use the “Sense Surroundings” application of the Use the Force skill, substituting Perception for Use the Force to activate the ability.

Zama-Shiwo Expertise (Martial Arts Forms talent tree)
Benefit: You may select one Force talent from the Control talent tree, even if you do not possess the Force Sensitivity feat. You may only select the Zama-Shiwo Expertise talent once.

While I agree that any new martial art in Star Wars SAGA should be represented by a feat and talent like this, I do believe that your rendition of Zama-Shiwo Expertise is a bit too general. Martial arts talents normally have applications that cover martial arts at least to some extent. They tend to grant some new type of attack or bonus on such attacks. While certainly useful, I believe that this may go beyond that, granting abilities that may have nothing to do with martial arts, even if that is one way to benefit from them.

   

fairytalejedi

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 08:48:48 pm »
A valid point, but I think in this case, it's martial arts as a spiritual tradition rather than just a "beating people up" tradition. That's kind of lacking in the source material other than Chirut, and of course the Jedi themselves.
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MERC_1

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2018, 03:54:31 pm »
A valid point, but I think in this case, it's martial arts as a spiritual tradition rather than just a "beating people up" tradition. That's kind of lacking in the source material other than Chirut, and of course the Jedi themselves.
I have not read the novels that contain Chirut, but to me it is obvious that he is Force Sensitive. That he lacks Force Abilities may mean that he has no force powers. He may still have a connection to the force by being Force Sensitive.

StevenO

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 04:40:34 pm »
A "spiritual tradition" you say?  Seems to me like Force Sensitive it back to what we're looking at instead of some Martial Arts tradition.

Could create some kind of Force Tradition that is oddly centered around the character following that tradition not actually having UtF trained.  Perhaps a key talent to the tradition is one that allows you to use "trained only" aspects of UtF and maybe by having you count as having UtF trained but without actually getting the normal +5 bonus for training; maybe a +2 competence bonus which of course wouldn't stack with Skill Focus.  Additional talents to this Tradition are likely to be "skill substitutions" where you are actually using OTHER skills in place of UtF instead of the other way around.
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Leonhem

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 12:40:09 pm »
Sources are kinda conflicting on whether or not Chirrut is Force Sensitive.
After finishing the book "Guardians of the Whills" last night, based on how it describes him getting around it sure sounds like force sensitivity, so I would say StevenO could be right about just not being trained in Use the Force. It leaves you with only the bare minimum, enough to be "Spiritual" and not throwing Storm Troopers around with your mind.
Though I like the idea of a Force Tradition that has the requirement "Not Trained in Use the Force"
Id maybe add a Talent that gives a Single use of Surge activated via Endurance or something like that off the top of my head. I think its worth working on.

StevenO

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 01:00:06 pm »
I would NEVER include "Not trained in UtF" in a Force Traditions requirements.  Now having said that if you make the talents for that tradition basically gain no additional benefit if trained in UtF you've pretty much done the same thing.
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MERC_1

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 03:11:08 pm »
Sources are kinda conflicting on whether or not Chirrut is Force Sensitive.
After finishing the book "Guardians of the Whills" last night, based on how it describes him getting around it sure sounds like force sensitivity, so I would say StevenO could be right about just not being trained in Use the Force. It leaves you with only the bare minimum, enough to be "Spiritual" and not throwing Storm Troopers around with your mind.
When you go around (in a SW film) saying: "I am one with the force and the force is with me", then you are either Force Sensitive or totally nuts! If you also do incredible stunts of melee fighting, you are most likely not nuts. If you also see even though you are blind, the jury is back with a guilty verdict, you are definitely Force Sensitive.

Also Star Wars Saga is a game, when you feel the need to emulate something seen on screen, you don't go around inventing the wheel all over again. You just use the skill, feat or talent that best fit the ability in question. If you want to invent something new, go right ahead, but try to make it fit within the framework of the game.

In my way of thinking, Chirrut could even be trained in Use the Force, but he has not gained the Force Training feat.   

StevenO

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Re: Zama-Shiwo
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 03:45:11 pm »
...
In my way of thinking, Chirrut could even be trained in Use the Force, but he has not gained the Force Training feat.   

No Force Training = none of the Force Powers.

Such a character still gets access to the wide range of Force Talents and talents that ask for UtF check which can make it very useful.  Although not anything like Chirrut I've got a character concept that would be picking up Force Sensitivity later and probably even training UtF but would probably never even consider what they are doing as "Using the Force" although that will be the game mechanic.
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