Author Topic: Hammerhead-class corvette, need help with CL and price  (Read 305 times)

Chayus

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Hammerhead-class corvette, need help with CL and price
« on: July 12, 2017, 02:50:45 am »
Hello, nice to see that there is still an active community for Saga Edition. As an Old Republic fan I thought it would be fun to make stats for the Hammerhead corvette from Rebels and Rogue One. Here is what I have come up with so far.

Rendili Hyperworks Hammerhead-class Corvette CL ??
Colossal (frigate) space transport
Init +0; Senses Perception +6
______________________________________________________________________
Defenses Ref 20 (flat-footed 16), Fort 41; +16 armor
hp 1,152*; DR 15; SR 125; Threshold 141
______________________________________________________________________
Speed fly 3 squares (starship scale)
Ranged point-defense fire-linked double light laser cannons +6 (see below) and
point defense double laser cannons (see below)
Fighting Space 1 square (starship scale); Cover total
Base Atk +2; Grp +53
______________________________________________________________________
Abilities Str 73, Dex 18, Con —, Int 14
Skills Initiative +0, Mechanics +6, Perception +6, Pilot +0,
Use Computer +6
______________________________________________________________________
Crew 2 (skilled); Passengers 2
Cargo 1,500 tons; Consumables 6 months; Carried Craft none
Hyperdrive ×2; navicomputer
Availability Licensed; Cost ?,???,??? (used ???,???)
*This ship takes only half damage from collisions.


Point-defense fire-linked double laser cannons (pilot)
Atk +6, Dmg (6d10)×2
______________________________________________________________________
Point-defense double laser cannons (gunner)
Atk +4, Dmg (5d10)×2

2 free EP


Rendili Hyperworks Hammerhead-class Corvette Combat Refit CL ??
Colossal (frigate) capital ship
Init +0; Senses Perception +6
______________________________________________________________________
Defenses Ref 20 (flat-footed 16), Fort 42; +16 armor
hp 1,152*; DR 15; SR 125; Threshold 142
______________________________________________________________________
Speed fly 4 squares (starship scale)
Ranged point-defense fire-linked double light laser cannons +6 (see below) and
point defense double laser cannons +4 (see below)
2 point defense light double laser cannon batteries +6 (see below)
Fighting Space 1 square (starship scale); Cover total
Base Atk +2; Grp +54
______________________________________________________________________
Abilities Str 75, Dex 18, Con —, Int 14
Skills Initiative +0, Mechanics +6, Perception +6, Pilot +0,
Use Computer +6
______________________________________________________________________
Crew 10 (skilled); Passengers 4
Cargo 1,100 tons; Consumables 6 months; Carried Craft none
Hyperdrive ×1 (backup x10); navicomputer
Availability Licensed; Cost ?,???,??? (used ???,???)
*This ship takes only half damage from collisions.




Point-defense fire-linked double laser cannons (pilot)
Atk +6, Dmg (6d10)×2
______________________________________________________________________
Point-defense double laser cannons (gunner)
Atk +4, Dmg (5d10)×2
______________________________________________________________________
Point-defense light double laser cannon battery (2 gunners)
Atk +6, Dmg (3d10)×2


They are based on the Consular-class Republic Cruiser (the size is nearly the same and the shape is very similar), with added armor, hp, strength, shield rating, a reinforced keel and guns. The combat refit moves faster (because of the fourth engine), has more guns, another +2 strength and a better hyperdrive and backup so it can keep up with the rest of the Alliance fleet. With crew and passengers I just treated quarters as one and assigned what made sense (and was on Wookieepedia and in Rogue One). Now CL and price are a problem. The Consular is unarmed and has a lower CL than some starfighters and most frigates you could compare it to have either way more or way bigger guns. Price is also a matter. Simply adding the the cost of the modifications seems wrong because a lot of them aren't that great improvements people would pay for over other ships (not everyone plans to ram Star Destroyers bridge-first on a daily basis).

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fairytalejedi

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Here's what I did with them, though for an earlier era. I did them by the book, so they are not as good as movie era ships, but the cost is accurate, per SotG. You could modify that as appropriate for upgrades. I don't bother with CL so I'm afraid I can't help with that.

Hammerhead corvettes (circa 1000 BBY)
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StevenO

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I see "Old Republic" mentioned and KotOR does have stats for the Hammerhead Cruiser from that era (p184.)

As for the stats here I really don't like them.  A FRIGATE with such a small crew is crazy.  My next thing is "why would I have a frigate sized ship and only use starfighter scale weapons on it?"

I'll admit I don't know a lot about them but to me they just seem like some variation of the Corellian Corvette which is where I'd start for stats.

When it comes to calculating vehicle CL there is no formula so it boils down to comparing it to other ships and going with that granted other ships aren't always accurate either.  The Consular Cruiser is listed with CL 8 I believe but it is also unarmed so adding weapons to it obviously should increase its CL greatly.  Some modifications will improve combat potential while others are almost all cosmetic when it comes to challenges as a ship with 2 days of consumables is just a challenging as one with 2 years when you meet it at full health.
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Chayus

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Here's what I did with them, though for an earlier era. I did them by the book, so they are not as good as movie era ships, but the cost is accurate, per SotG. You could modify that as appropriate for upgrades. I don't bother with CL so I'm afraid I can't help with that.

Hammerhead corvettes (circa 1000 BBY)

Huh, strange I had searched the forum for stats before posting my own, but those didn't turn up. Thanks, that's really helpful. :)

I see "Old Republic" mentioned and KotOR does have stats for the Hammerhead Cruiser from that era (p184.)

I know, but this is about the smaller Rise of the Empire/Rebellion era ships that are based on that design.

As for the stats here I really don't like them.  A FRIGATE with such a small crew is crazy.

The Consular cruiser has a crew of 8 (the Force knows for what), the Gallofree Yards medium transport has a crew of 6 (4 of those have to be gunners) and the Mobquet Medium Transport has a crew of 2. According to Wookieepedia the Hammerhead has a crew of 2. Granted, that's probably based on the fact that we saw Princess Leia on the bridge with a pilot and a copilot, but we also saw that one person was enough to control the ship and its main guns when the rebels stole them (while being shot as by AT-ATs). So 2 seems reasonable for basic operations. It's kind of like the Millenium Falcon. The standard crew is Han and Chewie, but the ship works so much better if there's another passenger to man the second turret and an astromech racing around and making repairs. For the combat refit I added a crew member for every station, including a captain, it didn't make much sense to me to add more.

My next thing is "why would I have a frigate sized ship and only use starfighter scale weapons on it?"

In Rebels it's described as an "old freighter" (and Wookieepedia lists its armamment as "dual laser cannons"). Freighters have to defend against pirates who mostly use starfighters and space transports. Turbolasers would miss most of those AND have an availability of "Military", so I don't really think that the Empire would be too happy about them. (Yes, I know the Corellian Corvette has turbolasers and is only "Licensed".) So I used normal point defense guns like on the medium transport. The combat refit only seemed to add 4 smaller guns, so I treated it like the Lancer-class frigate as an anti-starfighter defense.

I'll admit I don't know a lot about them but to me they just seem like some variation of the Corellian Corvette which is where I'd start for stats.

I didn't want to start with it because it's almost 25% bigger than the Hammerhead (even though it has less strength and hp than the Republic Cruiser) and has an even bigger crew. Reducing a crew from 8 to 2 I can somehow justify but I really don't want to mess like that with crews in the double digits, that's a matter for slave circuits etc.

When it comes to calculating vehicle CL there is no formula so it boils down to comparing it to other ships and going with that granted other ships aren't always accurate either.  The Consular Cruiser is listed with CL 8 I believe but it is also unarmed so adding weapons to it obviously should increase its CL greatly.  Some modifications will improve combat potential while others are almost all cosmetic when it comes to challenges as a ship with 2 days of consumables is just a challenging as one with 2 years when you meet it at full health.

And that's the problem, there are no comparable ships I can find. :( So I guess the only way would be to test it in battle against ships with different CLs and when it has a 50% chance to win that's the right CL.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 05:24:45 am by Chayus »

StevenO

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Apologies with the crew size although I still think 2 is too few for a ship that size.  Two people may be able to operate a ship in a skeleton capacity (which isn't given rules in SAGA although I favor a Persistent condition and treating it as if moved down the CT depending on how short staffed a ship is) but full operations probably should have more.  The Wookieepedia article may list a crew of 2 but that may be all that are present in the bridge at the time and doesn't include someone off in an engineering section or performing other needed duties.  An "older" ship most likely also has more crew.  Not that you really need a lot of crew but 2 just seems too few.  Oh, and I guess I'll mention I don't put much stock into the vehicle stats in the RECG as so many of those are derived from sources that may not have cared two cents about realism, continuity, and certainly not anything related to game balance.

When it comes to armament I can see where you are getting the light weapon load.  I'd probably designate all weapons as "gunner" fired weapons; I still believe such a weapon can be configured for a pilot to use it (although less optimally so no +2 for being trained in pilot and it is not a pilot controlled weapon for Vehicular Combat) but having set as a gunner weapon would allow it to be used by someone else when desired.  For a "combat refit" I'd definitely be adding some bigger guns.

You may have started with the Republic/Consular Cruiser but I believe your hitpoint, and more importantly shield, upgrades are too much especially for the base ship.  For a simple cargo ship SR 100 is usually more than enough to shut down starfighter attack and for most ships the "armor" value is just barely making up the size penalty.  Just having +14 Armor would be a bit improvement for most ships of that type and +13 is more reasonable; the Republic Cruiser's +14 armor is already on the high end for ships of that class and is probably there as it is an unarmed diplomatic ship that probably expects to get shot at occasionally.  Now the higher STR I can give you as that is engine power and also a bit of durability although those rarely come into play unless we say you're trying to push an ISD.  I would likely give the base ship the same hp that the Republic Cruiser has but may lower the SR a step or two (SR 90) and lower the Armor (+13) although the STR boost and keel could remain.  The Refit version is likely to see the better shields (maybe even up to that SR 125) and could see modest hp or armor  increases.  Instead of, or perhaps in addition to, a speed increase in the Refit I'd consider giving it an increased maneuverability (DEX).

Looking for ships to compare it to I see the Imperial customs Corvette is listed at CL 14 with a skilled crew and find its weapon load out comparable although it is MUCH weaker in terms of the punishment it could take compared to what you have listed.  The Lancer is also CL 14 and has more (weak) guns but it also less durable with a whole lot larger crew.  Honestly, while the ships presented in the OP may not have much firepower their durability in terms of REF Defense, SR, and hit points is much higher than pretty much anything else I'm finding to compare; this makes me think that if the challenge is to stop one the CL is much greater than it is if you're simply trying to escape from one.
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fairytalejedi

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I revised my stats for these, given the much smaller crew/passenger stats given on Wookieepedia, though I can't truly see a crew smaller than a standard shuttle crew given that it's one size category larger than that. It's kind of an in-between ship in many ways, not a true corvette, not a true heavy freighter, not a true passenger ship.

The Hammerhead-class Corvette
Colossal (frigate) capital ship
Init -1; Senses Perception +6
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Defenses Ref 15 (flat-footed 12), Fort 60; +12 armor
hp 600; DR 15; SR 100; Threshold 160
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Speed fly 3 squares (starship scale)
Ranged 3 double laser cannons +5 (see below)
Fighting Space 1 square (starship scale); Cover total
Base Atk +2; Grp +77
Atk Options autofire
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 110, Dex 16, Con —, Int 16
Special Qualities docking clamp, holotransceiver, IFF transponder
Skills Initiative -1, Mechanics +6, Perception +6, Pilot -1, Use Computer +9
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Crew 8 (skilled); Passengers 50
Cargo 500 tons; Consumables 1 year; Carried Craft none
Hyperdrive x2 (backup x10), navicomputer
Availability Military; Cost 2.5 million (new)

Double laser cannons (gunners)
Atk +5, Dmg 6d10x2
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