Author Topic: Star Wars Episode 7: The Force Awakens Official Discussion Thread  (Read 4790 times)

Sparx MacGyver

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Marvel fans would be having a similar reaction of the movies destroyed the comic continuity and delegated it to a "legacy" status.

I agree with most of what you said, with the exception here. First, the movies didn't destroy anything, ye the comic book fans are still whining and pissing and moaning over Disney and what they've done.

Second, They get these thing rebooted and reclassified and the character altered almost every year it seems. People still complain about that, and I doubt that will change. People moan and complain about anything and everything Star Wars.

Third, the did the same thing to Star Trek. The new movies are in an alternate universe. Rebooted.

Really, I don't see the issue with the Legacy status of the E.U. Yes, allot has been pushed aside to make room for what they are bringing up now, but it's a good thing. Let me ask you which you would rather see: Disney follows the EU and we get so-so movies following established canon? Or being able to refresh the EU and retell some stories in a new way, and bring life to characters that had grown stale?

I know people are attached to this universe and it's characters, but I think it's for the best they do this. There is no way they can please people by trying to keep within the old EU confines and you know it. Doing this, yes it upsets people, but it gives them more freedom to make it better. Or do we want movies that could be based on some of the worse Star Wars novels ever made?

I don't expect to change anybody;s mind, I just don't see the reason for hating the move so much. If Marvel can shake things up every couple of years, surly Star Wars can survive getting shaken up at least once every 30 years.
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richterbelmont10

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Han shot first.

No, Greedo shot first.

No, Han shot first.

No, they shot at the same time.

WHO CARES. IT's BEEN 20 YEARS. GET OVER IT.

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fairytalejedi

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I've never been keen on the post-Endor EU anyway. Too many Mary Sues, too many bad plots, too much Kevin J Anderson (who's the king of ignoring continuity in whatever universe he writes for). So I'm not sad to see it go. In that sense it's quite possible the sequels will be an improvement. This is just my opinion of course. YMMV.
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Corrik

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Han shot first.

No, Greedo shot first.

No, Han shot first.

No, they shot at the same time.

WHO CARES. IT's BEEN 20 YEARS. GET OVER IT.

Han shot first, but the point was never about who shot first or even the shooting at all. That was just a vehicle for the larger conversation about changes to the movies, story, and Star Wars as a whole. Han shooting first itells us about his character, it tells you the type of person he is, and it does it in a way that isn't just spelling it out for you. Han doesn't flatly state to Greedo that he'll do anything that it takes to get what he wants or some such. No, he distracts Greedo, pulls out his gun, and then shoots the Bounty Hunter dead. We as the audience are left to take from that scene what type of man Han is, and that informs his character to the audience from that point forward. Yes, I think it's a good scene that didn't need changing, and yes I think changing things can be disrespectful. However, that isn't the point. Han waiting to shoot changes what the audience takes from the scene, it changes the character and that fractures out to a lot of other changes with varying degrees of impact. That is the conversation. George Lucas' systematic disregard for how such changes effect the characters and Star Wars at large. Or more to the point, George Lucas is a sloppy writer and the more he writes the more that is apparent. Every little small thing he feels the need to edit, to move around, to mother add nothing at best, and ruins at worst. And that's what it is like, having a mother in law at dinner who keeps coming in and adding salt and seasoning to everything. She isn't even bothering to taste while she does it, she just wants everything to be "her way" and in the end the meal is ruined.

That's why people are angry, that's why people argue. Because he couldn't help himself and refused to listen to the advice of others, and because of that something good was made worse.

As for Marvel's shakeups. I like a shared universe. I like that the stories impact one another. I hate the constant shakeups, the reboots, the retcons, the massive inconsistencies because following your own rules is just too much to ask for. I hate them to the point that I don't read the big 2 anymore because I simply can not stand it. I don't want that in Star Wars. I don't want a reboot that resets the clock and completely misses the point of the source material. I want to see more stories in the universe I love, I want to see it grow and develop, watch it be nurtured and cared for. Could a trimming of the garden be good for Star Wars? Sure. I have absolutely no faith that it will be. Nothing about the people involved, Rebels, or the past years gives me any reason to believe otherwise. Let's not kid ourselves here, Bruce Timm and Paul Dini aren't in behind these changes. This is not the animated DC universe, this is another round of nonsense.

fairytalejedi

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There's a reason I only the original theatrical release of ANH. No big reptile completely obscuring the stormtroopers stopping Luke's speeder. No pointless Jabba scene that simply repeats exposition we just heard in the Greedo scene, almost word for word. And yeah, no professional bounty hunter missing an obstructed shot badly from three feet away.

Just sayin Corrik has a point. :)
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The Dark Side is Strong

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the talk on the radio is just ridiculous in regards to people complaining about a stormtrooper being a black guy

really not that big of a deal

also I hope leia is a Jedi

Amd Corrik, I think the sequels will turn out to be better than the originals, especially if what I heard about joss whedon directing future star wars movies...I believe this is because of less George Lucas interference on the plot.  The special edition are worse than the original theatrical releases, but the special editions are still better than the prequels.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 05:30:38 pm by The Dark Side is Strong »
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fairytalejedi

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I do prefer the special edition of ROTJ actually. I like the ending where the whole galaxy is celebrating and we see Hayden as a ghost. But the original versions of 4 and 5 are better.

What I would prefer from the sequels is a story where the Empire collapsed after Palpy's death, everyone celebrated, and there's been peace for the last 30 years, and then a new threat emerges completely unrelated to Palpy's old empire.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 05:36:04 pm by fairytalejedi »
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MasterArkaine

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Based on the thread so far, this is going to be a long year. Like Hoth Winters long  ::) ;)

While I welcome the discussion, be aware of having the same d-a-m-n-e-d fight over and over. Also be aware of the fact this site is a niche site for Saga, not a Episode 7 discussion website. The more passionate discussion about how bad/good the trailer are should be conducted where Disney/LucasFlim people can find it w/o searching the net for hours.

I'll agree the Lucas was a toolbag, whos perfection-seeking OCD annihilated the prequel trilogy. I'm also a person that believes as long as whoever is writing/directing the flims isnt Lucas this time, it will be 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% better then Episode 1 even (lowest bar we have)

I'll wait and see myself, I have real life stuff is think about like college and a new SWTOR xpac to deal with Episode 7 is the least of my worries. Can some of you say the same? 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 05:56:25 pm by MasterArkaine »
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illslim2

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I'll wait and see myself, I have real life stuff is think about like college and a new SWTOR xpac to deal with Episode 7 is the least of my worries. Can some of you say the same? 
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fairytalejedi

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Episode VII: The Force Awakens
Episode VIII: The Force Yawns and Stretches
Episode IX: The Force Turns Off the Alarm and Calls In Sick
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richterbelmont10

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Han shot first.

No, Greedo shot first.

No, Han shot first.

No, they shot at the same time.

WHO CARES. IT's BEEN 20 YEARS. GET OVER IT.

Han shot first, but the point was never about who shot first or even the shooting at all. That was just a vehicle for the larger conversation about changes to the movies, story, and Star Wars as a whole. Han shooting first itells us about his character, it tells you the type of person he is, and it does it in a way that isn't just spelling it out for you. Han doesn't flatly state to Greedo that he'll do anything that it takes to get what he wants or some such. No, he distracts Greedo, pulls out his gun, and then shoots the Bounty Hunter dead. We as the audience are left to take from that scene what type of man Han is, and that informs his character to the audience from that point forward. Yes, I think it's a good scene that didn't need changing, and yes I think changing things can be disrespectful. However, that isn't the point. Han waiting to shoot changes what the audience takes from the scene, it changes the character and that fractures out to a lot of other changes with varying degrees of impact.

Yes I agree that Han shooting first should have been left alone. It gave off the right impression about his character, and changing it did not make it better.

That is the conversation. George Lucas' systematic disregard for how such changes effect the characters and Star Wars at large. Or more to the point, George Lucas is a sloppy writer and the more he writes the more that is apparent. Every little small thing he feels the need to edit, to move around, to mother add nothing at best, and ruins at worst. And that's what it is like, having a mother in law at dinner who keeps coming in and adding salt and seasoning to everything. She isn't even bothering to taste while she does it, she just wants everything to be "her way" and in the end the meal is ruined.

Agreed. That being said, GL is not the only artist who is not satisfied with his creation even when it's a masterpiece. I watched a Joni Mitchell interview recently, and she stated that when she listens to her songs, she is not happy with them, even though they are classics. Big Yellow Taxi is a classic, but she said she doesn't like it and she would go back and change it if she could and use a different track. I have no idea why. I guess some artists are funny that way.

As for Marvel's shakeups. I like a shared universe. I like that the stories impact one another. I hate the constant shakeups, the reboots, the retcons, the massive inconsistencies because following your own rules is just too much to ask for. I hate them to the point that I don't read the big 2 anymore because I simply can not stand it. I don't want that in Star Wars. I don't want a reboot that resets the clock and completely misses the point of the source material. I want to see more stories in the universe I love, I want to see it grow and develop, watch it be nurtured and cared for. Could a trimming of the garden be good for Star Wars? Sure. I have absolutely no faith that it will be. Nothing about the people involved, Rebels, or the past years gives me any reason to believe otherwise. Let's not kid ourselves here, Bruce Timm and Paul Dini aren't in behind these changes. This is not the animated DC universe, this is another round of nonsense.

Reboots are getting a little old now. But I don't think they had a choice. It would have been too difficult to try to tie everything from the new movies to every book and comic that was ever written. Tying everything together and making an excellent feature film for both SW and non-SW fans would be an impossible task.

There's a reason I only the original theatrical release of ANH. No big reptile completely obscuring the stormtroopers stopping Luke's speeder. No pointless Jabba scene that simply repeats exposition we just heard in the Greedo scene, almost word for word. And yeah, no professional bounty hunter missing an obstructed shot badly from three feet away.

Just sayin Corrik has a point. :)

AND don't forget the stupid Pal'o'wik singing scene in Jabba's palace. The first time I saw that I thought to myself, "Where on earth did this come from? That was never in the movie!"

AND don’t forget the scene at the end of Episode 6 where the Force ghosts show up: OLD Ben Kenobi, OLD Yoda, but YOUNG Hayden/Anakin? WHY???

I'm also a person that believes as long as whoever is writing/directing the flims isnt Lucas this time, it will be 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% better then Episode 1 even (lowest bar we have)

Most of my friends like Episode 1. I don't get them. I have one friend who thinks Jar Jar is NOT annoying. I don't get him.

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MasterArkaine

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I'll wait and see myself, I have real life stuff is think about like college and a new SWTOR xpac to deal with Episode 7 is the least of my worries. Can some of you say the same? 
Anywhere from 64 to 70 hours a week between two jobs, and one job is literally the 9th hel-l on Earth.

No, I know your schedule illslim, it sucks.

The last sentence in my comment was a retort at the way people's comments make it look like they are sitting there all day long trying to decipher every last pixel of the teaser trailer.
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fairytalejedi

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So my latest idea is that Max von Sydow plays the Inquisitor from "Rebels" as an older man.
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illslim2

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So my latest idea is that Max von Sydow plays the Inquisitor from "Rebels" as an older man.

Oh I like that, I keep thinking he will be a Wise old Rebel Leader somehow . I always liked Max, and he can play good or evil well. I also like Bill Nighy doing evil characters and Charles Dance too.
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Based on the thread so far, this is going to be a long year. Like Hoth Winters long  ::) ;)

While I welcome the discussion, be aware of having the same d-a-m-n-e-d fight over and over. Also be aware of the fact this site is a niche site for Saga, not a Episode 7 discussion website. The more passionate discussion about how bad/good the trailer are should be conducted where Disney/LucasFlim people can find it w/o searching the net for hours.

I'll agree the Lucas was a toolbag, whos perfection-seeking OCD annihilated the prequel trilogy. I'm also a person that believes as long as whoever is writing/directing the flims isnt Lucas this time, it will be 99.9999999999999999999999999999999% better then Episode 1 even (lowest bar we have)

I'll wait and see myself, I have real life stuff is think about like college and a new SWTOR xpac to deal with Episode 7 is the least of my worries. Can some of you say the same?

Well this is the "official discussion thread" for the entire movie.  If we keep our non-game related discussions here and don't pollute the rest of the form with repeated posts and we should be golden.


When it comes to comparing Marvel to StarWars I really don't think there is a good comparison.  Just looking at the age and diversity of Marvel's universe they certainly NEED to "reboot" certain things every so often if they are going to want any kind of unity throughout all of their properties.  StarWars is only half the age that Marvel is and while somethings are definitely out of place I'd like to think there is far more consistency as a whole.  With the new movies taking place 30 years after the original trilogy I don't think it needs a full reboot although it could be interesting to clarify some of what we know.

In some ways I see the new movies doing what I suspect many of us have no trouble doing in our games.  We may take what is 'known' about the universe but don't mind changing a few details around or we recognize that the universe is big enough for our stories without directly competing with other stories.
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