TheSagaContinues

An idea Chainmail Jedi brought up was, now that WotC isn't breathing down our necks. we could try to make a "Saga 2.0" (as fan created, not for profit material) PDF and try to make the game grow. Any thoughts?

There is/was a thread concerning that idea back on the WotC board somewhere.

I know my thought when looking for how to "improve" SAGA is to add the SAM but beyond that many things I'd leave untouched.  I'm not sure I'd like SAGA 2.0 to start resembling DnD 4e but then again I guess I haven't played 4e.

Seeing 4e style stat blocks isn't representative of a new system but rather just representing what is already known.  No doubt stat blocks can be made better for certain kinds of uses but that isn't a change to the system but just how it is presented.

What are you talking about?  An overhaul of the whole system, or changing it piecemeal as needed?

Some of the areas I have seen people try and work on are starship combat, starship creation/modding, and PrC classes (especially the Force ones).

What areas need the attention?  If we make a list, we can work on them on a per item basis.

-My $0.02.

really I am more interested in fixing Saga's problems, which include the SAM and probably merging some PrC, notably Jedi Knight, Sith Apprentice, and Imperial Knight.  For 2.0, what I think we need to focus on, is elminating Saga's weaknesses and emphasizing the system's strengths, while maintaing balance.  I think the key here is to make sure that nothing in the 2.0 is more powerful than it would have been under the previous rules, but is more simplified and stream-lined.

I think it would be best for StevenO and others who advocate as much against power-gaming as possible to make the list of items in Saga which should/could be tweaked for improvement.

Speaking of the Skill Attack Modifier, I'd like to see a character sheet that uses the SAM calculations to see what it would look like.

I would bann the Jedi class and put all the talents in the other classes or force talents.

The starting feats could be changeable so that you have the same situation like a non-heroic. For example a soldier may take 4 or 5 feats from a certain list as starting feats.

Cut the Jedi!!!  That is blasphemy in a StarWars game even when the class doesn't represent only Jedi and there are other ways to build Jedi. 

While I support some variability when it comes to starting feats (see my Basic Houserules thread) if you take it too far you can basically ignore all heroic classes and just have a  single "HEROIC" class to go alongside the Nonheroic class.  As a class in SAGA Jedi fills a pretty specific need even if it is arguably the most focuses heroic starting class with the fewest trained skills and TWO starting feats unique to the class.

Other idea with the Jedi class, rename it to "Force-User" then put in everything with Force.

Ok, what do you think if one or two starting feats are changeable?

The only thing renaming the "Jedi" class does is help the mindset of those who think that Jedi/class = Jedi/concept and that to play Jedi/concept you MUST play Jedi/class.  There are lots of ways to be a "Force User" in SAGA so I'm afraid the more "accurate" rename for the Jedi class would be "Lightsaber/Force Wielding character" although when you multiclass into Jedi you can often ignore one side of that or the other.

When it comes to starting feats I think my house rules sum up my opinion on them.  Most of your starting "feats" are just proficiencies and I do not believe they are all the same value even if they have the same cost were you to buy them by spending feats.  For example Rifles are better than Pistols but generally they aren't so much better that you should let a character drop rifles and get something that can be used in a completely different way.  If you let people trade the Armor proficiencies from Solder for any feats you'd find that very few people would bother with them as armor takes further investment to stay useful; if I could "trade" AP(light, medium) for MAI/II that is almost all "WIN" as I'd get a +2 REF bonus (and a nice unarmed attack) that I would never need to put more into to keep useful.  How I value those starting proficiencies is why you see situations where you give up two or three starting feats for an alternative.

Now perhaps there should be a short list of substitutions for non-proficiency starting feats but figuring those out is much harder.  Substitutions for Force Sensitivity?  Why are you starting in Jedi if you didn't want that to begin with?  I know Shake It Off can be a wonderful feat but before you substitute for it you should pay attention to restrictions on actually getting it which require a certain ability score and cost a Scout one of trained skills.  Linguist has a similar issue (although I lower the INT requirement) but is rarely a game making ability so what could that be exchanged for?  Maybe Surgical Expertise if a character is trained in Treat Injury.  The Scoundrel's Point Blank Shot is the non-proficiency feat which makes the best candidate for substitution but what options would we give for it or maybe we should look at it as a proficiency of some kind.