Author Topic: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?  (Read 363 times)

Jedi Ronin

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So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« on: August 05, 2014, 08:32:36 am »

What was their plan after Ep III?


Luke and Leia were to be separated for safety. Obi-wan would watch over Luke.
Yoda would hide on Dagobah.


But the films (and The Clone Wars) indicate that they had a plan - but what was it?


Luke wasn't trained until he was an adult. Leia was put completely out of the orbit of Obi-wan or Yoda.
It was a series of completely accidental events that lead to Luke and Obi-wan getting together and Obi-wan deciding to convince Luke to train as a Jedi and somehow deal with the Emperor and Vader.


Did they have some sort of plan that Leia "interrupted" by seeking out Obi-wan when she did?

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RogerWilco

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 10:00:43 am »
I think the key word here is Destiny.

There seems to be a strong in universe belief that your destiny will find you.

Obi-Wan and Yoda might not have had a plan.
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StevenO

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 12:44:53 pm »
In Luke's case I think there was no training because of his aunt and uncle.  My impression of them is that they certainly didn't look too kindly on the Jedi and wanted to keep Luke from the path his father took by keeping him away from the Jedi that trained his father.  Let's be honest here, Luke's Aunt and Uncle knew the score and didn't want to play the game.

I'm more willing to think that with Leia things may actually have been going "according to plan" even if they weren't training her as a Jedi.  I mean she had power and influence which are two very useful tools to have.
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Jedi Ronin

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 01:56:42 pm »
That's a good point about Leia - they knew Bail Organa would resist the Empire and Leia would be raised to be part of that.


As for Luke....
I can see the Lars not wanting Luke having anything to do with Obi-wan but Obi-wan is going to let his plan be thwarted by this?


Assuming that the Lars shut down Obi-wan/Yoda's plan - what was the plan?


Step 1 is Obi-wan handing Luke over to the Lars.


What's step 2?

fairytalejedi

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 02:59:52 pm »
It does seem that Yoda was expecting or hoping that Luke would have come to him earlier. However, both he and Kenobi trusted in the Force to let them know when the time was right.

The plan was to train Luke to kill Palpatine and Vader. Neither Yoda nor Kenobi believed redemption from the dark side was possible. The Sith had to be destroyed. Luke, like Anakin before his injuries, had the potential to dwarf even Palpatine in power, had he been fully trained.
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The Dark Side is Strong

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 03:10:31 pm »
FTJ, if that's the case, Yoda should have taken Luke with him to Dagobah.  Imagine how powerful Luke would have been if he had trained for 20 years with Master freakin' Yoda.  Additionally, they could have told him about his father and the Emperor from an early age so when Vader makes his big reveal to Luke, he's like

"cool story bro, but that's old news pops"

And at that point Vader prolly would have been clinging for dear life above a massive drop in cloud city with his hand chopped off.

Honestly, I think Yoda and Ben had kind of given up.  Look at where they chose to live, in peaceful, removed places.  It's almost like they were trying to accept the way the Galaxy was and just move on.  Luke optimism could have changed their minds.
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Jedi Ronin

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 03:30:46 pm »
It does seem that Yoda was expecting or hoping that Luke would have come to him earlier. However, both he and Kenobi trusted in the Force to let them know when the time was right.

The plan was to train Luke to kill Palpatine and Vader. Neither Yoda nor Kenobi believed redemption from the dark side was possible. The Sith had to be destroyed. Luke, like Anakin before his injuries, had the potential to dwarf even Palpatine in power, had he been fully trained.

I agree with you regarding Yoda and Kenobi's attitude about needing to destroy Vader and Sidious.

But why would Yoda and Obi-wan just leave it up to the force to tell them when Obi-wan should train Luke?
Yoda was concerned about Anakin being too young when he became Obi-wan's padawan.  So why would he plan on Luke growing up to make the same mistake again (in Yoda's mind).  And to be trained by the same guy who trained Anakin?  Even Obi-wan admits his arrogance in thinking he could train Anakin.


illslim2

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2014, 04:01:32 pm »
One word... "Lucas"
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Jedi Ronin

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2014, 04:22:30 pm »
One word... "Lucas"

That's what I was thinking but I didn't know if the EU or fan base had come up with some explanation.

Jorundr Hrafnsson

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2014, 04:40:01 pm »
Well the plan worked, so this is all a pointless circle jerk.
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Jedi Ronin

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2014, 05:01:08 pm »
Well the plan worked, so this is all a pointless circle jerk.

What plan? =)

fairytalejedi

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2014, 05:08:52 pm »
Kenobi at the end of Ep 1 and Kenobi at the end of Ep 3 were very different people, and Yoda's trust in him was on a whole different level. Also, we don't know what advice they got from Qui-Gon about waiting, if any.
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ZehnWaters

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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 09:19:23 am »
One word... "Lucas"

That's what I was thinking but I didn't know if the EU or fan base had come up with some explanation.

Well, I mean if we're going to blame it on the prequels I don't think that's fair.  Obi-Wan clearly knew the score in the OT as well.  What, he just HAPPENED to be on the same planet, in the same region as Luke this whole time?  Why the bothered waiting?  I'm not sure.  Maybe the realized the old ways don't work and were willing to let him grow up.  Maybe they were afraid to start too soon while Vader and Palpatine were still hunting out Jedi quite so actively.
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Re: So what exactly were Yoda and Obi-wan thinking?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2018, 03:25:52 pm »
I wonder if the point wasn't to train Luke to beat them (Vader and Palpatine), so much as train him enough to make him something they would finally have a showdown over. As others have pointed out, waiting to train Luke until he was older than when Anakin started would make no sense, unless they needed him to seem vulnerable due to his age and impulsiveness, but also show his potential by how much he progressed in a short time. Yoda and Obi-Wan didn't need another fully trained Jedi, they needed another potential Anakin. The Sith Lords fight over him, one takes out the other (as they've wanted to for years), and whoever's left, weakened by the fight, is ended by Luke. If that was the plan, then Leia was probably far too disciplined to convincingly be bait, which I think is shown by her handling of Vader and Tarkin on the Death Star. 
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