Author Topic: Episode I Infinities  (Read 391 times)

ZehnWaters

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Episode I Infinities
« on: December 17, 2018, 09:13:42 am »
So I've got an Infinities (or Star Wars What if...?) idea and I want some feed back (I've actually got a lot of these but let's start with Episode I):

Obi-Wan makes it past the last barrier in the fight against Maul and is able to help beat the Sith Lord, saving Qui-Gon's life.

What sort of ramifications would this have?  Obviously Qui-Gon trains Anakin.  Does the Council allow it or is he forced to do it outside the order?  What happens during the Clone Wars?  Dooku is Qui-Gon's old master, would that sway Qui-Gon some?  Would Qui-Gon be more leery of Palpatine?  What of Anakin's visions of Shmi's death?  Anakin's relationship with Padme?
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StevenO

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2018, 01:42:57 pm »
Your "infinities" selection pretty much destroys all the Vader/Skywalker storyline in my eyes.  I think it's pretty obvious that Qui-gon would be the one to teach Anakin and I believe his attitude and Obi-Wan's would be significantly different.  Now instead of Master-Student I'd see Anakin and Obi-Wan as more far more like brothers (fraternity brothers if you will) which I believe would be less animosity between them.

When it comes to Anakin's "relationships" I believe Qui-gon would have gone back for Shimi (Obi-Wan never knew her so why would he?) which is most likely to lead to some kind of alternative death if you believe that is her Destiny but not sure how that would play out.  I don't see Qui-gon as being nearly the stickler for the rules and he'd probably be "won't ask, so don't tell" when it comes to Anakin and Padme even as he knows what's going on.  I'm not sure if Qui-gon would have turned against the Republic at Dooku's request but I'm guessing he'd put a lot more weight into his words.
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ZehnWaters

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2018, 02:25:47 pm »
Your "infinities" selection pretty much destroys all the Vader/Skywalker storyline in my eyes.

Yep.  Infinities are known to throw out storylines; it's the nature of the game.

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I think it's pretty obvious that Qui-gon would be the one to teach Anakin and I believe his attitude and Obi-Wan's would be significantly different.  Now instead of Master-Student I'd see Anakin and Obi-Wan as more far more like brothers (fraternity brothers if you will) which I believe would be less animosity between them.

My thoughts as well.  A father figure and a brother figure would probably help Anakin be more emotionally stable.

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When it comes to Anakin's "relationships" I believe Qui-gon would have gone back for Shimi (Obi-Wan never knew her so why would he?) which is most likely to lead to some kind of alternative death if you believe that is her Destiny but not sure how that would play out.

Well, Obi-Wan SHOULD have gone back because Anakin was having visions about her death.  What's the point of knowing people can have visions if you don't act on them?  Regardless, I see Qui-Gon as reminding Padme about their debt of hospitality to Shmi to leverage the payment for Shmi (something she should have done anyhow).

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I don't see Qui-gon as being nearly the stickler for the rules and he'd probably be "won't ask, so don't tell" when it comes to Anakin and Padme even as he knows what's going on.  I'm not sure if Qui-gon would have turned against the Republic at Dooku's request but I'm guessing he'd put a lot more weight into his words.

Hm.  How do you think this would play out?  Would he investigate deeper into the Senate?  Would Palpatine order his death?  Would Dooku comply?  Would he have chosen Qui-Gon instead of Sifo-Dyas as the target for his Sith initiation?  What would Qui-Gon think of the Clone Wars?  Obi-Wan was ready and willing to fight as it was his duty, would Qui-Gon comply as swiftly?  Would he simply leave the Order?
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Jormundre

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2018, 10:05:58 pm »
As a Qui Gon fan, I especially like it!

If the council would be willing to let young Obi Wan train Anakin, I believe Qui Gon would soon have his way. I felt like Obi Wan was speaking Qui Gon's words when he said he would do it without the council's permission, if he must.

What if Qui Gon was the perfect teacher? What if he even let some of the subtle version of romance slide? He might see it as his (Qui Gon's, that is) Destiny to facilitate a royal blood line.

Qui Gon's respect and personal knowledge of the Count might actually assist the council see through the political mess, but I believe the Sith would soon identify Qui Gon as a threat to their plot and eliminate him... Sidious might make it the Count's job, thus placing Anakin at direct odds with the count, and Ani might take a dark step when he kills the count, and then some.

I can see Vader being supremely powerful, possibly not loosing as much of his raw power (extremities) and becoming something Sidious could only control by using Padme as a bargaining chip...  But, just speculating ) ... thus re-introducing the offspring under drastically different maturation. 

I hope to you add more feedback as this unfolds. Wonderful idea.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 10:10:32 pm by Jormundre »
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ZehnWaters

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 09:21:16 am »
As a Qui Gon fan, I especially like it!

If the council would be willing to let young Obi Wan train Anakin, I believe Qui Gon would soon have his way. I felt like Obi Wan was speaking Qui Gon's words when he said he would do it without the council's permission, if he must.

What if Qui Gon was the perfect teacher? What if he even let some of the subtle version of romance slide? He might see it as his (Qui Gon's, that is) Destiny to facilitate a royal blood line.

Qui Gon's respect and personal knowledge of the Count might actually assist the council see through the political mess, but I believe the Sith would soon identify Qui Gon as a threat to their plot and eliminate him... Sidious might make it the Count's job, thus placing Anakin at direct odds with the count, and Ani might take a dark step when he kills the count, and then some.

I can see Vader being supremely powerful, possibly not loosing as much of his raw power (extremities) and becoming something Sidious could only control by using Padme as a bargaining chip...  But, just speculating ) ... thus re-introducing the offspring under drastically different maturation. 

I hope to you add more feedback as this unfolds. Wonderful idea.

Killing Qui-Gon might backfire on them, though, if Anakin finds out who is really behind it.  He wouldn't be as attached to Palpatine with Qui-Gon to act as mentor.  Still, that isn't to say he wouldn't fall to the dark-side, only that he likely wouldn't want to be follow the man who killed Qui-Gon.  I see it like Magneto in the X-Men: First Class film.
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fairytalejedi

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2019, 07:52:39 am »
Here's my Ep 1+ infinities:

Anakin is already a teenager and the padawan of Kenobi. They are sent to Naboo to settle the Trade Federation conflict. (Note: Palpatine has already had the clone army in development for years, because he plans ahead and such, but nobody knows it.)

Anakin and Padme are love struck from the first time they lay eyes on each other. Because they're both teenagers, duh.

They have some adventures, blah blah blah, they make it to Coruscant. There's a meeting with the Jedi Council. Dooku is a member of the Council. Padme is afraid the Senate won't act on the invasion, and requests that if that is the case, the Jedi respond in force to free her planet.

The Council is divided. We see Dooku arguing that the Senate is corrupt beyond redemption, and the Jedi must take it upon themselves to settle this conflict. But most of the Council disagrees, especially Mace, who says it's not their place to declare war and the Jedi are not soldiers, they can't fight a war by themselves. We see the tension between Mace and Dooku, with Yoda trying to mediate and be the understanding voice of both positions, but ultimately agreeing with Mace.

Faced with the reality that the Council will not help her, Padme has no choice but to call for a vote of no confidence in the hope that Palpatine will be elected Chancellor. This is the last straw for Dooku, confirming his position that democracy is a hopeless mess and the Jedi Council are willfully blind to reality.

Fast forward to Ep 2, just a couple of years later. We now understand why Dooku resigned from the Jedi Order and why he is encouraging planets to secede from the Senate. There's genuine suspense as to whether he's really just a political idealist or has turned darker. It's also revealed that Mace was Dooku's greatest apprentice, and his greatest disappointment. At the end, after Dooku defeats Kenobi and Anakin, it's Mace that shows up and duels him to a draw until Dooku escapes.

Fast forward to Ep 3, when the final showdown between Yoda and Palpatine is the first time we see Yoda bust out his lightsaber and fight. It's one of the climaxes of the whole prequel trilogy.

As an added bonus, we get to spend more time on the romance between Anakin and Padme, which is actually the main plot of the prequels. A major shortcoming of the prequels IMO is that Lucas was so in love with the fact that SFX technology had advanced enough for him to do the world building he always wanted, he forgot that the romance is the main storyline. It's not like the OT where the Han/Leia romance was a subplot. The Anakin/Padme romance is the story of the prequel era, with the other events and world building serving as a backdrop to the tragic love story.
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ZehnWaters

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2019, 08:35:20 am »
Here's my Ep 1+ infinities:

Anakin is already a teenager and the padawan of Kenobi.

Ah, a retcon.

Quote
Anakin and Padme are love struck from the first time they lay eyes on each other. Because they're both teenagers, duh.

Hm.  This makes more sense and is less creepy than a 14 year old and a 9 year old.  Is Anakin still a chosen one in this version?  I feel like that's the biggest reason for his discovery in Ep. I.

Quote
They have some adventures, blah blah blah, they make it to Coruscant. There's a meeting with the Jedi Council. Dooku is a member of the Council. Padme is afraid the Senate won't act on the invasion, and requests that if that is the case, the Jedi respond in force to free her planet.

The Council is divided. We see Dooku arguing that the Senate is corrupt beyond redemption, and the Jedi must take it upon themselves to settle this conflict. But most of the Council disagrees, especially Mace, who says it's not their place to declare war and the Jedi are not soldiers, they can't fight a war by themselves. We see the tension between Mace and Dooku, with Yoda trying to mediate and be the understanding voice of both positions, but ultimately agreeing with Mace.

Faced with the reality that the Council will not help her, Padme has no choice but to call for a vote of no confidence in the hope that Palpatine will be elected Chancellor. This is the last straw for Dooku, confirming his position that democracy is a hopeless mess and the Jedi Council are willfully blind to reality.

Fast forward to Ep 2, just a couple of years later. We now understand why Dooku resigned from the Jedi Order and why he is encouraging planets to secede from the Senate. There's genuine suspense as to whether he's really just a political idealist or has turned darker. It's also revealed that Mace was Dooku's greatest apprentice, and his greatest disappointment. At the end, after Dooku defeats Kenobi and Anakin, it's Mace that shows up and duels him to a draw until Dooku escapes.

Fast forward to Ep 3, when the final showdown between Yoda and Palpatine is the first time we see Yoda bust out his lightsaber and fight. It's one of the climaxes of the whole prequel trilogy.

I like it.  This definitely has an eye for the whole trilogy instead of just having a general outline.  It'd be fun to have 6 movies before we realized Yoda is actually a stunningly good fighter.  Goodness knows it was a surprise to see Palpatine spinning around like a dervish.

Quote
As an added bonus, we get to spend more time on the romance between Anakin and Padme, which is actually the main plot of the prequels. A major shortcoming of the prequels IMO is that Lucas was so in love with the fact that SFX technology had advanced enough for him to do the world building he always wanted, he forgot that the romance is the main storyline. It's not like the OT where the Han/Leia romance was a subplot. The Anakin/Padme romance is the story of the prequel era, with the other events and world building serving as a backdrop to the tragic love story.

That's a fair assessment of Lucas.  He's a great storyteller but we all have our weaknesses.
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Oncarou

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2019, 11:32:52 am »
When it comes to Anakin's "relationships" I believe Qui-gon would have gone back for Shimi (Obi-Wan never knew her so why would he?) which is most likely to lead to some kind of alternative death if you believe that is her Destiny but not sure how that would play out.

Shmi's whole situation is one big glaring WTF for me. A throwaway line alluding that she volunteered to stay on Tatooine to help the Jedi run an "Underground Rainroad" for slaves would have changed the whole dynamic for the better.

One of the things I see coming out of saving Shmi, is that it would likely negate the whole connection to the Lars family, and perhaps Tatooine, as a hiding place for the kids if that were ever to become necessary. If Luke and Leia were endangered somehow and needed to be hidden, this time it might make sense to place them among Padme's family (since there would be an explanation for a  familial match, DNA-wise), or the family of one of her former doubles from when she was Queen.

ZehnWaters

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2019, 01:00:01 pm »
or the family of one of her former doubles from when she was Queen.

Placing one of them with Sabé would be an interesting twist and explain any familial similarity (there isn't much of one but, you know, if there was).  Having said that, I'm not sure Anakin WOULD turn to the dark-side if he still maintained contact with Shmi as Qui-Gon would likely let him have.
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Oncarou

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 03:56:17 pm »
Placing one of them with Sabé would be an interesting twist and explain any familial similarity (there isn't much of one but, you know, if there was).  Having said that, I'm not sure Anakin WOULD turn to the dark-side if he still maintained contact with Shmi as Qui-Gon would likely let him have.


I guess it would just boil down to whether or not the rise of Darth Vader is inevitable. If so, a stable and mature Anakin might lead to a more powerful and nuanced Vader. If not, then Anakin likely fulfills Qui-Gon's belief of what bringing balance to the Force actually is. In either case, I think there would be more of a "sibling rivalry" between Anakin and Obi-Wan, since Obi-Wan seemed near to taking the Trials anyway, and likely moving on, so he'd sort of be the older brother that went off to college. Anakin would probably feel that he's being compared to Obi-Wan (maybe favorably, maybe not, in his own estimation), and Obi-Wan would almost certainly hear about the prodigy of prophecy, and might feel that he's been easily replaced by a pupil more interesting to Qui-Gon.


It makes me wonder if the Council would task Obi-Wan with keeping an eye on Qui-Gon and Anakin. Obi-Wan being a little less of a rebel than Qui-Gon, and maybe a bit jealous of the freedoms Anakin enjoys (older child compared to the yougest), reports on it, Qui-Gon, Anakin, and perhaps Padme feel betrayed, while Obi-Wan asserts that he's doing the right thing. Palpatine gets wind of it, and finally knows what Anakin cares about, thus gaining the necessary leverage to begin convincing him the Jedi have strayed from what their path should be. Maybe Qui-Gon decides he's had enough, breaks with the Council, and Anakin goes with him. They fall down Palpatine's rabbit hole too far to back out once he's revealed. Battle ensues, Qui-Gon and Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan, or even each against the other. Either Qui-Gon or Anakin gets badly injured and becomes Darth Vader, but which one? We replace the revelation of Luke's parentage, with the mystery of Vader's true identity. We could even change Vader's line in Empire back to the old misdirect "Obi-Wan killed your father", wondering if he means literally or figuratively until the reveal in ROTJ when the helmet comes off.
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fairytalejedi

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 09:22:34 pm »


Anakin and Padme are love struck from the first time they lay eyes on each other. Because they're both teenagers, duh.

Hm.  This makes more sense and is less creepy than a 14 year old and a 9 year old.  Is Anakin still a chosen one in this version?  I feel like that's the biggest reason for his discovery in Ep. I.

Yes. At some point during their adventures, Padme is amazed at the things Anakin can do even though he's still an apprentice. (Some lines like "There are too many of them!" - Cocksure Anakin: "It won't be a problem.") Obi-Wan explains how he discovered Anakin, and how some believe he's the chosen one who will bring balance to the Force. Obi-Wan says, "My worry is that Anakin believes it to. Sometimes he acts like he can do no wrong..."
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ZehnWaters

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2019, 09:34:18 am »
Anakin would probably feel that he's being compared to Obi-Wan (maybe favorably, maybe not, in his own estimation), and Obi-Wan would almost certainly hear about the prodigy of prophecy, and might feel that he's been easily replaced by a pupil more interesting to Qui-Gon.

There's an idea: What if Obi-Wan turns to the dark-side.  If not powerful, he's certainly quite skilled.  He may have lost to Dooku but he beat almost everyone else he faced.  Does he let Anakin's fame canker his soul with jealousy?  What happens when it comes to light that Anakin has a secret relationship with Padmé?  Obi-Wan left Satine for the order, would this simply make him even more resentful?

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It makes me wonder if the Council would task Obi-Wan with keeping an eye on Qui-Gon and Anakin. Obi-Wan being a little less of a rebel than Qui-Gon, and maybe a bit jealous of the freedoms Anakin enjoys (older child compared to the yougest), reports on it, Qui-Gon, Anakin, and perhaps Padme feel betrayed, while Obi-Wan asserts that he's doing the right thing. Palpatine gets wind of it, and finally knows what Anakin cares about, thus gaining the necessary leverage to begin convincing him the Jedi have strayed from what their path should be. Maybe Qui-Gon decides he's had enough, breaks with the Council, and Anakin goes with him. They fall down Palpatine's rabbit hole too far to back out once he's revealed. Battle ensues, Qui-Gon and Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan, or even each against the other. Either Qui-Gon or Anakin gets badly injured and becomes Darth Vader, but which one? We replace the revelation of Luke's parentage, with the mystery of Vader's true identity. We could even change Vader's line in Empire back to the old misdirect "Obi-Wan killed your father", wondering if he means literally or figuratively until the reveal in ROTJ when the helmet comes off.

Hm.  I think if Vader does come into existence it'd be because Obi-Wan DID try to kill him.  Maybe Qui-Gon does break off, but not to follow the Chancellor but because he feels the Chancellor has too much sway over the council.  As rogue members, maybe Obi-Wan is sent to bring them in and/or kill them and Qui-Gon is slain and Anakin disfigured.
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ZehnWaters

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2019, 09:36:25 am »
Yes. At some point during their adventures, Padme is amazed at the things Anakin can do even though he's still an apprentice. (Some lines like "There are too many of them!" - Cocksure Anakin: "It won't be a problem.") Obi-Wan explains how he discovered Anakin, and how some believe he's the chosen one who will bring balance to the Force. Obi-Wan says, "My worry is that Anakin believes it to. Sometimes he acts like he can do no wrong..."

Oooooooo.  Chills, man, chills.  This is such a spot on rewrite.  Is Shmi in your version?  What helps push Anakin to the dark-side?
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fairytalejedi

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2019, 07:28:26 am »
Fear of losing Padme can still be a thing without Shmi. Also, feeling betrayed by Padme and the Jedi. I picture Anakin using anger more and more as the war goes on, with encouragement from Palpy. It fuels his power and he doesn't see how it's changing him. Padme grows concerned about what the war is doing to him and goes to the Jedi for help, which Anakin sees as a betrayal. None of them can hold a candle to me, and you choose them over me??
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ZehnWaters

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Re: Episode I Infinities
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2019, 11:02:23 am »
You know if either of you wanna provide input to my 4 other Infinities, I wouldn't tell you no.  ;)  I'm particularly proud of Ep. IV
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