Author Topic: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!  (Read 334 times)

DaSarcasticGuy

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Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« on: June 20, 2018, 10:18:18 pm »
So I've been talking to some friends who are new to P&P RPGs about doing a Star Wars campaign. Since many have very limited experience with this type of game I decided to make some basic characters and show their progress up to level 12. To give them an idea of what is possible at a basic level. But I realized that some types of characters I never play and I'm having trouble actually making them. So I was hoping I could ask you guys for help. The main things I would need would be the level 1 version and the level 12 version. I'm using a 28 point buy and I'm open to all books. If anyone was any other tips, suggestions, etc. that is always welcome. I am hoping to have at least 2 builds per starting class (though this is SAGA so jumping around is perfectly fine) so they can see the advantages of all the classes. At this point I think I would be happy with at least 1 build per starting class. 

First, here are the builds I have done so far:

A Str based Jedi who is all about the combat and strength and lightsabers
A Dex based Jedi who is about mobility and speed and more of a focus on out of combat abilities
A Force Wizard Jedi who is just a Force Power user with poor combat skills, but has some more diplomatic skills
An Offensive minded Soldier who likes big guns and is good in a brawl
A Defensive minded Soldier who is about keeping his allies safe
A Tech Scoundrel who is poor in combat but really good with computers and ships and piloting

I confess to being stumped for Nobles and Scouts right now. I started making a Noble character that was all about helping the party and making them better, but finding out the feat Rapport doesn't work with a prerequisite of the Trust Talent was pretty feels bad as those were the two abilities that I wanted to go with. Then I couldn't think of any Prestige Classes that really fit. I guess Officer was the most likely thought that would require going into Knowledge Tactics, which wasn't where I had initially envisioned the character, but maybe I'm just wrong there. I was next going to look into a Scout that is all about stealth and recon, but just wasn't feeling it after my bombing on the Noble.

Finally, builds I would like to have:

A spy or assassin or infiltrator type of Scoundrel. Any or all is fine, just something sneaky that hits from the shadows.
A Noble that focuses on aiding the party but would be a poor combatant on their own. Most likely the "diplomat" of the group.
A stealthy Scout that is good at scouting and recon but is also a capable fighter. Someone who can survive on the fringes of the universe
A bounty hunter Scout. Open to basically anything that fits criteria of being a bounty hunter.
Some other type of Noble based character. I am open to basically anything here.

Again these are builds that should be simple. Not looking for complicated interactions, just something to give people a starting point and to have all starting classes represented. Any and all help will be very much appreciated, so thank you in advance to anyone who can help out. I'll gladly accept as much or as little as you can give me.

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StevenO

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 11:52:21 pm »
I'll applaud you for not going crazy and trying to show 20th-level builds as some kind of standard.  I look at 12th level as being pretty close to the achievable "goal level" where the stuff you do after that  doesn't matter so much.

Now on the other end I guess I generally look at "well rounded" starting characters as still being 3rd-4th level.  I know 1st-level is vitally important for setting certain things up but sometimes it takes a couple more levels for the character concept to start showing through which is why if I were doing some kind of introductory campaign using pre-gen characters I might start there.  I guess the only thing here is some concepts really can be seen from 1st-level so I may leave some blanks that can be filled in later.

Now in my DoD roster I've got a pair of characters starting in each Noble and Scout. 

For the Nobles starts one is intended have a dual identity and may act primarily as party support.  Her first levels are Noble2/Jedi1/Soldier1; this may seem odd but the Noble levels will be for Wealth (and later Connections) to help finance the party while all the skills make her a social butterfly and help with her identity as an entertainer who knows people.  The Soldier level is mostly to get AP-light and Armored Defense enabling her to easily wear light armor which in effect is a separate identity.  The Jedi level is for Force Sensitivity because she'll start with a very low WIS score (species penalty) and use it for Skill substitutions (Force Perception being a key here).  She'll be a Noble3/Jedi3/Solder1 before going into Crimelord where Impel Ally would let her pass her actions to someone who can use them more effectively.  Her primary weapon is likely to be a grenade launcher.

My other Noble start is for what would better be described as a Jedi Consular build although with some tweaks it makes a good diplomat.  First level is all about the Skill and taking Inspire Confidence to boost allies (and an ability which will take advantage of a species trait making the bonus even bigger) along with Force Sensitivity to start with UtF trained.  After that it's on to the Jedi class for lightsaber proficiency (granted it wouldn't be a primary attack mode until much later when Weapon Finesse and Ataru come online around 9th level) the Negotiator talents (again taking advantage of a species bonus to Persuasion) and the classic Deflect and probably Block talents.  The 9th-level would probably be Jedi Knight.

I've often said there are at least 3 ways I could build a Noble1/Jedi3 be they Saber Rake, Diplomat, or Jedi Consular/Force Wizard.

My Scout starts are similar in some ways but very different in others.  One would be the Wookie Warrior who starts as a great Survivalist/outdoorsman who will eventually be looking at Bounty Hunters (and Gunslinger for the CT-Killer build using Aiming) likely using some levels of Soldier in there to keep him tough.  I may also look at some other PrCs for the +4 class bonus to FORT.  The other I see as a Jensaarai Scout who is starting in Scout for the Skills (but no Endurance and only CON 12 so no Shake It Off) before multiclassing into Soldier and Jedi likely on the way to Jedi Knight and also Vanguard; this character may not hit hard but is intended to get into places using Stealth and then get out and with some very high Defense scores (and Evasion from Vanguard) be very hard to kill.

The class I have the hardest time starting in is Scoundrel simply because I only see starting in it if you feel you need to train at least two more than are on another class's starting list.  Generally this may mean combining something like Persuasion/Deception with Stealth and Mechanics which would otherwise take 12 levels to boost INT to get the additional trained skills or require using feats on Skill Training.  On the other hand I think it's a pretty nice target to multiclass into.  I have a hard time with my armored, heavy weapon, pilot, tech character figuring out if I want that level of Scoundrel to open up class skills (INT will be a rising stat for the character) and provide Point Blank Shot (Gunslinger and Elite Trooper are both target PrCs as will Officer.)  When it comes to "tech" characters I often start them in Soldier just because it only loses one trained skill on the Scoundrel yet has more hit points and start feats  to work with.
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DaSarcasticGuy

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2018, 03:04:59 am »
Wow, thanks StevenO. There's a lot there. And ya there is no way I'm going to try and make a character go to level 20 for some newbs!!! ;) But level 12 seemed like a good end game area where they could see exactly what was going on and what the character can acomplish. Level 1 was mainly because that's where they would be starting. And for clarification, they might not necessarily be starting with these characters, they certainly can, but I was thinking they would probably act more as guides. Just wanted to have everything represented so they understand the baselines of where to go. I feel really comfortable with Jedi characters (as those are the ones I played the most) and more combat oriented characters just feel easier to make a baseline for. I really like the Wookie Scout Warrior concept you mentioned. I wouldn't go with the CT-killer for him for these basic characters, I'm not sure if any of them would be able to grasp that right away. Well, the ones who have played other RPGs would, but it's the ones who are super new that I would be wary of overloading with complexity.

One thing I've really struggled with is finding Feats for Nobles that aren't just combat related. Am I forced to have them be more combat centric? I've always assumed that the players would gravitate towards that, but was hoping there would be a more 'diplomatic' approach for players who might want to go that way. Of course this could all be a waste of time on my part, but it never hurts to be prepared. But I think I'm going to take another read through of everything you gave me. Again thanks for the massive info dump. Cheers. 

StevenO

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 01:08:59 pm »
While characters may start at First level I still like encouraging players to look at the first few levels as a "concept development" phase.  Some concepts can be pretty clear at 1st-level others may require extensive house rule to give a player everything he thinks he wants right out of the gate; a big part of my problem with some of those house rules is it means the player isn't making any compromises which in turn can lead to power gaming situations and throwing things off further down the road.  These are the reasons I generally say to look at level 3-4 as a real starting point although the "warm up levels" getting there can be important too.

As with pretty much any build there is plenty of wiggle room.  The Wookie Scout3/Soldier3... build has lots of potential and can fit different things in.  When I look at "wiggle room" my Jensaarai Scout may be an even bigger example of meshing concepts as he'd combine Stealth with some pilot ability (which is interesting when you have Stealth as well to sneak into places) along with an Armor push (AD, IAD-likely from Jedi Knight, and Attune Armor) and of course some Force Use.  Even my Soldier (who's intended as Duros but could easily change to human or something else) is a combination of different things as he'd have decent Armor, plan for Heavy Weapon use which will also go toward piloting a bit, and then a mix of technical skills; strongly considering Fool's Luck (either from Scoundrel or Gunslinger) so he can spend a FP to get +5 on pretty much every skill check made during the encounter which could be a long time with how I believe "encounters" should be measured.

To be honest, most heroes are going to be looking at some combat ability.  If you're just looking at how they perform with Skills I'd say that Nonheroic characters can generally punch at or above the level of hero at the same Challenge Level; this may not help PCs but it matters for NPCs but Non-heroics generally aren't as survivable in combat.  When it comes to non-combat related talents for the Noble you probably need to look to other books (GoI may help) although I'd certainly look at other classes.  That "diplomatic" Noble1/Jedi3 build I talk about is taking the levels of Jedi for Consular talents (especially the Negotiator talents to talk down opponents) and doesn't need to bother with Use the Force at all and could just skip a new starting feat if he feels WP-lightsaber is inappropriate (granted it never needs to be used) or that Force Sensitivity could have its own drawbacks.  Another place to look for non-combat talents is Scoundrel; here I'm thinking the Fortune and Misfortune talents which could support a group or provide non-combat assistance.

Sorry if it seems like a massive info dump.  If you read this on a mobile it's probably a headache but it's just hard conveying meaningful information in 160 characters or less.
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sienn_sconn

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 02:14:16 pm »
It is true that there seems to be only a few non-combat feats, and of those few, some are definite no-brainers while others are so focused as to be worthless most of the time.

I think you two have hit it on the head.  Either characters will naturally gravitate towards combat, or the GM might feel like he has to force the heroes into combat.  But don't let combat feats detract from social interactions.  The GM might rule that the Noble with Noble Fencing Style might be able to make an attack roll with his shortsword in place of some other check that deals with wit or misdirection.  A Jedi trained in Acrobatics is probably a decent dancing partner, even if he doesn't get all the social cues.  A Scoundrel trained in Stealth doesn't just sneak around, the Sleight of Hand application could be used for entertainment and simple magician tricks.  A Scout trained in Survival probably knows alot about geography and plants.  And a Soldier trained in Knowledge (tactics) could have an edge while playing a game of holochess.  It all depends on what the GM is willing to play along with.  There was a D&D adventure that allowed heroes to play darts by making attack rolls and the total of your five attack rolls was your total points for your throws, with the winner getting a small stash of gold.

Check the Dawn of Defiance adventure path (specifically, the Gem of Alderaan adventure) for ways to make even combat-focused characters viable for social interactions.

For specific non-combat feats, don't forget to look at the Species feats from RECG.  Several of them make good bonuses, such as negating insight or morale bonuses to an enemy's Will, or gaining a Force point when you make a Gather Information check and learn secret information.
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StevenO

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 04:40:46 pm »
...

Check the Dawn of Defiance adventure path (specifically, the Gem of Alderaan adventure) for ways to make even combat-focused characters viable for social interactions.
...

Skill Challenges (GoI) before there actually were Skill Challenges.  The thinking person's way to run a challenge.


Now another thing you'll often see Noble used for is your "clinically trained doctor" as opposed to a start in Soldier to train Treat Injury.  This type of "do no harm" character is also great for a non-4th degree droid (Medical Droids are usually 1st-degree) as you can actually follow those behavioral inhibitors that so many seem to want to ignore despite making something other than a 4th-degree droid.
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DaSarcasticGuy

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2018, 03:15:24 pm »
Thanks for the responses gents, it has definitely helped me get some more baseline characters done. And no worries about massive text dumps, I actually enjoy those. The more info the merrier so don't feel bad about it. Actually the only character build I have left on my list is the 'Scouting' Scout. I think I'm going to go with a cross of movement related abilities and stealth combat. Make the character sort of like a gorilla fighter. If anyone else has any thoughts, comments, suggestions, whatever, that is all still more than welcome here. Thanks again for the help provided.

StevenO

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2018, 11:16:37 pm »
That Wookie Scout I was doing was training Climb/Athletics, Endurance, Survival, Stealth, Perception, and I guess I can't recall what else (INT isn't the dump stat - probably Pilot and/or Mechanics) and I am going to be needing a pair of Awareness talent to enter Bounty Hunter later.  Besides Bounty Hunter (and Gunslinger) I had also looked at getting it into Vanguard (which takes two talents from Camouflage or Commando) which is a full BAB PrC with a +4 FORT Defense and access to Awareness and Survivor (read Evasion) talents.  If not going for a CT-Killer (which also means you could forgo Gunslinger as BH gets +4 REF although your WILL may miss the +2 class bonus) going with Soldier 4 gives you a number of options with your feats and your talents; Demolitionist is a Commando talent that seem appropriate for your gorilla fighter as it could sneak in, plant the explosives, and then ideally get out without ever being detected.  If looking for "movement related Abilities" I might try to get Acrobatics as a trained skill although that means Scoundrel or Jedi.
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sienn_sconn

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Re: Creating Basic Characters for New Players. Help!
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2018, 10:23:03 pm »
When you guys say 'gorilla fighter', this is what I think of.




But what you mean is 'guerrilla fighter' :)

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