Author Topic: [DoD] Question  (Read 124 times)

Tolentino

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[DoD] Question
« on: November 07, 2018, 09:30:15 am »
Hi there everyone,
I'm totally psyched to have found this forum here. Very nice to find some people who like the saga edition rules as much as I do.

So, I'm starting a new campaign with a new group and we already had our first session of Traitor's gambit. Only reached the point of saving Maya and getting the information gathering about Deep Storage bay V14 done. But I'm preparing further episodes and have a few questions:

- Initial Set-up: In the forum and also in the reddit sub it is often mentioned that the point buy for DoD is suggested to be at 28 points. Where can I actually read this recommendation in form of an official Campaing Setting dcoument?. I don't see it in the Campain Intro file or the first Episode: "Traitor's Gambit". Was there another document or other statement by the designers?

- First to strike: Am I seeing it right, that there are no suggestions as to the destiniy fulfillment steps like int he other modules? Do you have suggestions which types of Destinies fullfill a step at which points of this Episode?

- The Core of Corruption: On page 5 left column last paragraph: In the answer regarding the question about the contact a Tero Reskan is mentioned about whom Admiral Varth hints he might be somebody the PCs have worked with before. I don't remember reading about him. Am I wrong? Was he maybe in another adventure which is outside of the DoD campaign but suggested as an inbetween adventure? Which one would that be and where do I get it?

- Regarding the timesetting of DoD and the impact on Jedi. Since it plays "in the months" after Revenge of the Sith and thus shortly after Order 66 Jedi are on the run on the one hand and on the other hand the memory of them is still quite fresh. So a Lightsaber - even deactivated - may be an easily recognized device, at least for soldiers and customs agents.
Also the use of the force may not just be wierd or be "explained away" by victims and witnesses but they will know exactly what that was.
How would you handle that? Will the average citizen report a "Jedi-like" behavior to the nearest authorities?
Should the force Using PCs live in constant fear of being discovered and have to hide their abilities? I feel that this would change the usefulness of the Character Concept altogether but also the theme of the setting. It will feel quite dystopian and gritty and while I like this in general I think it is not how Star Wars should be. In my mind Star Wars is a fairy tale in space not a Cyberpunk dystopian parable with society critique.
Also I think it could frustrate the players, that they can't play their hero in a heroic way. How can one balance that with the suspension of disbelief necessary to accept that the empire won't send all their available regiments of Stormtroopers to a location where the use of lightsabers or the force is reported, let alone activating the inquisitorius.

Ok, every thought is welcome here, thank you!

Best regards,

T


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sienn_sconn

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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 03:44:05 pm »
- Initial Set-up: In the forum and also in the reddit sub it is often mentioned that the point buy for DoD is suggested to be at 28 points. Where can I actually read this recommendation in form of an official Campaing Setting dcoument?. I don't see it in the Campain Intro file or the first Episode: "Traitor's Gambit". Was there another document or other statement by the designers?

I am not aware of another document or statement, but I could be wrong.


- First to strike: Am I seeing it right, that there are no suggestions as to the destiniy fulfillment steps like int he other modules? Do you have suggestions which types of Destinies fullfill a step at which points of this Episode?

I don't see any Destiny Fulfilled steps, either.

Rescue could work during the Collateral Damage encounter while saving the Nazren children, or destroying the AT-ST during the Battle of Martyr's Plaza could activate Destruction.  Perhaps if one of the heroes spends a great deal of time offering to train the Nazren in the arts of war and how to combat the Imperials, Education or Champion destinies might provide a bonus.


- The Core of Corruption: On page 5 left column last paragraph: In the answer regarding the question about the contact a Tero Reskan is mentioned about whom Admiral Varth hints he might be somebody the PCs have worked with before. I don't remember reading about him. Am I wrong? Was he maybe in another adventure which is outside of the DoD campaign but suggested as an inbetween adventure? Which one would that be and where do I get it?

I believe Tero is simply a NPC for this portion of the campaign, although perhaps he was supposed to make an appearance earlier, or it could be a way to involve an NPC that you, the GM, has introduced randomly somewhere in the game and now they can help the heroes once more.


- Regarding the timesetting of DoD and the impact on Jedi. Since it plays "in the months" after Revenge of the Sith and thus shortly after Order 66 Jedi are on the run on the one hand and on the other hand the memory of them is still quite fresh. So a Lightsaber - even deactivated - may be an easily recognized device, at least for soldiers and customs agents.
Also the use of the force may not just be wierd or be "explained away" by victims and witnesses but they will know exactly what that was.
How would you handle that? Will the average citizen report a "Jedi-like" behavior to the nearest authorities?
Should the force Using PCs live in constant fear of being discovered and have to hide their abilities? I feel that this would change the usefulness of the Character Concept altogether but also the theme of the setting. It will feel quite dystopian and gritty and while I like this in general I think it is not how Star Wars should be. In my mind Star Wars is a fairy tale in space not a Cyberpunk dystopian parable with society critique.
Also I think it could frustrate the players, that they can't play their hero in a heroic way. How can one balance that with the suspension of disbelief necessary to accept that the empire won't send all their available regiments of Stormtroopers to a location where the use of lightsabers or the force is reported, let alone activating the inquisitorius.

Several of my heroes in my run-through of Dawn of Defiance were Jedi, and each in their own way learned the difficulties of Jedi in the Dark times.  One insisted on using his lightsaber, so consequently Imperial troops called for backup to deal with the extra threat level and later encounters got tougher because they tightened security in key areas to deal with the Jedi threat.  Another decided to be low-key and never use his Force powers except when he was alone, with the trusted group, or could otherwise create plausible deniability.  He sometimes complained about never getting to do awesome stuff like the other Jedi, but at the same time, no one ever suspected him of being a Jedi (so when the stormtroopers showed up pointing blasters, the lightsaber Jedi was the first one to get shot at).  It's all about how you want to work with or against the players to create the right atmosphere for your game.  If you want to replicate the Dark Times feel, Jedi need to be subtle and tread carefully if they want to live.

The Force Unleashed Campaign Guide has a section on how to handle Jedi in a Dark Times game.  To be brief, it suggests that a character who uses the Force in a public place (and you could add a lightsaber to this as well) suffers unfavorable circumstances to Stealth (-2) until that character escapes the public eye.  This penalty represents both the public's general awareness of the Force and their reaction to visible Force use.  This penalty isn't so severe that it can't be worked around, but it can be inconvenient at times.

I would also suggest something else: the Gather Information skill indicates that when attempting to learn secret information, if you fail the check by 5 or more, someone comes looking for you to investigate, arrest, or silence you.  Use this same concept with Stealth checks:  have the heroes make rolls to keep low profiles, and if one of the Jedi botch it,  roll with it.  You don't need to have a combat encounter if you don't want to, but build the world and work with the idea that someone, somehow, saw the Jedi doing something he ought not to have (like doing telekinetic practice or sparring with a ligthsaber).  Have stormtroopers show up to interrogate civilians or put up wanted posters about potential Jedi trouble.  Maybe a 'concerned' citizen shows up and politely asks the Jedi to move along so the locals can avoid Imperial retribution.  Or perhaps a chase commences when the full-on finger pointing of, "Holy crap!  It's a Jedi sorcerer!  Get the soldiers before he kills us all with his mind powers!" finally goes down.
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StevenO

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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 05:59:43 pm »
Hi there everyone,
I'm totally psyched to have found this forum here. Very nice to find some people who like the saga edition rules as much as I do.

Glad you found this board.  Hopefully you can find it helpful.
Quote
- Initial Set-up: In the forum and also in the reddit sub it is often mentioned that the point buy for DoD is suggested to be at 28 points. Where can I actually read this recommendation in form of an official Campaing Setting dcoument?. I don't see it in the Campain Intro file or the first Episode: "Traitor's Gambit". Was there another document or other statement by the designers?
You should be looking for the Dawn of Defiance Campaign Standards which were also the RPGA Campaign Standard.  The pdf file I have saved on my computer for this is called "SW_DD_Campaign_Standards_v1-2".

This document also mentions other restrictions for equipment and classes (no Sith) along with how Destiny  and tells you that you should use fixed hp/HD with d6=4 hp, d8=5, and d10=7.
Quote
- First to strike: Am I seeing it right, that there are no suggestions as to the destiny fulfillment steps like in the other modules? Do you have suggestions which types of Destinies fulfill a step at which points of this Episode?
Short answer here is that it may not really matter.  I don't recall seeing things specifically called out as "DESTINY X COMPLETED" and while steps may be involved you shouldn't need steps during each mission.  As for First to Strike specifically I guess I can't think of anything that specifically points to helping complete a Rescue, Destruction, or Discovery Destiny.  Now isn't this the one that then leads the PCs to Coruscant so maybe completing the adventure should be a step toward a Discovery Destiny but considering how much work needs to be done to keep going I'm not sure it needs to stick.
Quote
- The Core of Corruption: On page 5 left column last paragraph: In the answer regarding the question about the contact a Tero Reskan is mentioned about whom Admiral Varth hints he might be somebody the PCs have worked with before. I don't remember reading about him. Am I wrong? Was he maybe in another adventure which is outside of the DoD campaign but suggested as an inbetween adventure? Which one would that be and where do I get it?
Traitor's Gambit.  He is the "package" that is frozen in carbonite although I don't see his name specifically mentioned at that time.
Quote
- Regarding the timesetting of DoD and the impact on Jedi. Since it plays "in the months" after Revenge of the Sith and thus shortly after Order 66 Jedi are on the run on the one hand and on the other hand the memory of them is still quite fresh. So a Lightsaber - even deactivated - may be an easily recognized device, at least for soldiers and customs agents.
Also the use of the force may not just be wierd or be "explained away" by victims and witnesses but they will know exactly what that was.
How would you handle that? Will the average citizen report a "Jedi-like" behavior to the nearest authorities?
Should the force Using PCs live in constant fear of being discovered and have to hide their abilities? I feel that this would change the usefulness of the Character Concept altogether but also the theme of the setting. It will feel quite dystopian and gritty and while I like this in general I think it is not how Star Wars should be. In my mind Star Wars is a fairy tale in space not a Cyberpunk dystopian parable with society critique.
Also I think it could frustrate the players, that they can't play their hero in a heroic way. How can one balance that with the suspension of disbelief necessary to accept that the empire won't send all their available regiments of Stormtroopers to a location where the use of lightsabers or the force is reported, let alone activating the inquisitorius.
...
I really do suggest than any "Jedi" be very quiet about things.  When it comes to various uses of the Force I believe that many could/should be usable without drawing any extra attention; sorry but you shouldn't need to wave your hands and speak "magic words" to make it obvious to everyone that you are using Mind Trick as I feel these are just added to the movies and things for the VIEWER's benefit so they know for certain what is going on.

Even when the Jedi weren't being hunted down I'm not so sure than an unignited lightsaber would instantly be recognized as such by everyone.  Despite this I certainly would encourage anyone who carries a lightsaber to do something to conceal its presence just as you may like to conceal any weapon especially in "civilized" areas.

With the "average" citizen run off to report a possible Jedi?  I think not but it's so hard to know what average is.  On Imperial Center it may be likely and you could see it in other locations as well but I'm not sure there will be an immediate response and in most cases the PCs would be gone before the Inquisitors come to get them.  I'd even say that in several adventures there would be nothing to make me think Jedi would need to hide who/what they are.

To be really honest, YES, the Jedi should have a fear of being discovered.  As noted it fits the times when the galaxy certainly would play more rough around the edges; Rogue One didn't seem all sunshine and rainbows to me and that is kind of how I think the DoD may play out.  Additionally I suspect it is intended as a way to curb the power of Skill checks vs. Defense scores (most often seen with Force Powers) which is nuts early on when using the RAW.  Beside all of this remember that the Inquisitors are a recurring villain in many of the adventures.
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Tolentino

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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2018, 11:00:16 am »
Glad you found this board.  Hopefully you can find it helpful.
It already has been very helpful thank you very much.

Quote
You should be looking for the Dawn of Defiance Campaign Standards which were also the RPGA Campaign Standard.  The pdf file I have saved on my computer for this is called "SW_DD_Campaign_Standards_v1-2".
Ah, yes! Funny I didn't find that where I found the campaign itself. Thanks a lot

Quote
Short answer here is that it may not really matter.  I don't recall seeing things specifically called out as "DESTINY X COMPLETED" and while steps may be involved you shouldn't need steps during each mission.  As for First to Strike specifically I guess I can't think of anything that specifically points to helping complete a Rescue, Destruction, or Discovery Destiny.  Now isn't this the one that then leads the PCs to Coruscant so maybe completing the adventure should be a step toward a Discovery Destiny but considering how much work needs to be done to keep going I'm not sure it needs to stick.
Well with the other Episodes there are always side boxes at certain stages suggesting to give a destiny step bonus. So I was just wondering.

Quote
Traitor's Gambit.  He is the "package" that is frozen in carbonite although I don't see his name specifically mentioned at that time.
Ah never thought that it could be him. TY for the suggestion.

Quote
When it comes to various uses of the Force I believe that many could/should be usable without drawing any extra attention; sorry but you shouldn't need to wave your hands and speak "magic words" to make it obvious to everyone that you are using Mind Trick as I feel these are just added to the movies and things for the VIEWER's benefit so they know for certain what is going on.
I see it the same way.

Quote
Even when the Jedi weren't being hunted down I'm not so sure than an unignited lightsaber would instantly be recognized as such by everyone.
 Despite this I certainly would encourage anyone who carries a lightsaber to do something to conceal its presence just as you may like to conceal any weapon especially in "civilized" areas.
Just to make sure I understand this how you intended: Do you mean to say, unignited Lightsabers are unfamiliar for the most people even so shortly after the clone wars or
even in another era an unignited Lightsaber would be easily recognized by any individual in a military, customs or similar position?

Quote
Additionally I suspect it is intended as a way to curb the power of Skill checks vs. Defense scores (most often seen with Force Powers) which is nuts early on when using the RAW.
Interesting Idea, a Fluff restriction to balance the crunch. I don't think that's what the designers intended, or else they would've written it somewhat more clearly IMO, but it is an interesting idea nonetheless.
I have stumbled over the skill vs. defense issue myself and read about your approach with the SAM and have to say, that I had a very similar fix for that myself. There will be a post about that in another thread.

BR

T

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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2018, 03:43:51 pm »
Quote
When it comes to various uses of the Force I believe that many could/should be usable without drawing any extra attention; sorry but you shouldn't need to wave your hands and speak "magic words" to make it obvious to everyone that you are using Mind Trick as I feel these are just added to the movies and things for the VIEWER's benefit so they know for certain what is going on.
I see it the same way.
When it comes to the more apparent Force powers I'm generally thinking about those that provide some visible aspect.  Some of those, like Force Lightning, would be amazingly obvious while other, like Move Object, may point to something being amiss but not having an obvious source although scanning the area (Perception-search) may find someone who looks "off" in that they could be the source.

Although opinions probably vary I readily believe that Force Choke would be one of these less apparent powers especially if you takes its mechanics and apply them in some other fashion.  Instead of a litteral choke perhaps the person suddenly suffer debilitating chest pains or the like.
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Quote
Even when the Jedi weren't being hunted down I'm not so sure than an unignited lightsaber would instantly be recognized as such by everyone.
 Despite this I certainly would encourage anyone who carries a lightsaber to do something to conceal its presence just as you may like to conceal any weapon especially in "civilized" areas.
Just to make sure I understand this how you intended: Do you mean to say, unignited Lightsabers are unfamiliar for the most people even so shortly after the clone wars or even in another era an unignited Lightsaber would be easily recognized by any individual in a military, customs or similar position?
I do believe an unignited lightsaber would be unfamiliar for most in large part because lightsaber are so personal and aren't mass produced.  The brilliant end of the stick will be what people see and what easily attracts the most attention but what that's coming from is so often obscured by hands and isn't nearly as obvious.  Throw into that all the cylindrical shaped object in the world and as long as it's not be carried like a weapon it probably wouldn't be seen as a weapon.  Or would you call to turn in every security guard or the like who is carrying around a flashlight/torch in a holster on the hip?

Now with a more careful inspection the true nature of a lightsaber would certainly be more likely especially by those "in the know" which probably does not include the general population.
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Additionally I suspect it is intended as a way to curb the power of Skill checks vs. Defense scores (most often seen with Force Powers) which is nuts early on when using the RAW.
Interesting Idea, a Fluff restriction to balance the crunch. I don't think that's what the designers intended, or else they would've written it somewhat more clearly IMO, but it is an interesting idea nonetheless.
I have stumbled over the skill vs. defense issue myself and read about your approach with the SAM and have to say, that I had a very similar fix for that myself. There will be a post about that in another thread.
I'm not entirely sure the designers, especially early on, realized how much of an issue SvD could be.  While SAM is not an automatically included house rule for me, despite my promotion of it as the best SvD solution, that's probably because my viewpoint has/had been it's only really a problem when it start becoming abusive.  Having a couple almost "alway hit" powers to go with an entire encounter may not be so bad provided there are weaknesses there as well to exploit but a single min/max Force Wizard in a low level game and I'd be grabbing SAM pretty quickly.
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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2018, 04:58:31 pm »
Just to make sure I understand this how you intended: Do you mean to say, unignited Lightsabers are unfamiliar for the most people even so shortly after the clone wars or
even in another era an unignited Lightsaber would be easily recognized by any individual in a military, customs or similar position?
I would say as Lightsabers have a designation as Rare availability in any era, most people should not recognize it, not without a knowledge check or prior knowledge anyway. So IF you have seen one before, a DC 10 check for Galactic Lore may be enough, otherwise the DC goes to about 20. A DC 20 check for Technology may also sufize.

I was trying to find the description of Rare availability, but it was not there in my version of the SECR. If someone could point me in the right direction I would be happy!

From memory it says something like: Normally only available on planet of origin and otherwise cost x2 if available. So unless you have had some interaction with Jedi, chances are that you have never seen one.



Note to self: Build Lightsaber to look like a code-cylinder!


StevenO

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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2018, 05:13:13 pm »
...
I was trying to find the description of Rare availability, but it was not there in my version of the SECR. If someone could point me in the right direction I would be happy!

From memory it says something like: Normally only available on planet of origin and otherwise cost x2 if available. So unless you have had some interaction with Jedi, chances are that you have never seen one.

You mean the little blurb on pg 120 of the SECR which basically says what you have there?

Oh but EVERYONE has seen the Jedi in the holo-news reals from the Clone Wars.  It may be akin to asking if someone could identify a B-2 by sight granted I doubt a lot of people actually could identify it if they only saw a small part of if that lacked the most distinctive features.
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MERC_1

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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2018, 05:58:15 pm »
You mean the little blurb on pg 120 of the SECR which basically says what you have there?

Oh but EVERYONE has seen the Jedi in the holo-news reals from the Clone Wars.  It may be akin to asking if someone could identify a B-2 by sight granted I doubt a lot of people actually could identify it if they only saw a small part of if that lacked the most distinctive features.

Yes, that little blurb was hard to find. I was looking for it for at least 10 min...
Thank you StevenO, that set my mind at ease!

As a side note, the Kel-Dor breath-mask costs 4 times normal on the open market, so really rare items could cost even more than just double the price.

I think that IF you have seen a lightsaber on the holo-news reals from the Clone Wars, that depends on what planet you live on. Also, those lightsabers have most certainly been activated when in view or worn with a Jedi robe. So seeing an unactivated lightsaber out of context may not register, unless worn with a Jedi robe.

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Re: [DoD] Question
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2018, 09:22:21 pm »
...
Yes, that little blurb was hard to find. I was looking for it for at least 10 min...
Thank you StevenO, that set my mind at ease!

As a side note, the Kel-Dor breath-mask costs 4 times normal on the open market, so really rare items could cost even more than just double the price.

I think that IF you have seen a lightsaber on the holo-news reals from the Clone Wars, that depends on what planet you live on. Also, those lightsabers have most certainly been activated when in view or worn with a Jedi robe. So seeing an unactivated lightsaber out of context may not register, unless worn with a Jedi robe.
Pretty much exactly where I expected it to be at the front of the equipment sections.  Of course maybe I lucked out a little and landed on exactly where it was.  As for that Kel Dor mask being so expensive on the open market it could also be that they are that specialized.

You've pretty much got my view on how widely know lightsabers would be.  Now just think about this, how much "art" have you seen with a lightsaber wielder in it and then how much attention did you actually pay to the handle?  I mean I think I can recall seeing examples where the lightsaber blade seemingly materializes out of thin air and if you want to terrorize a population about Jedi Wizard I think it would be a wonderful example of how scary they can be.
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